The .380 round for SD - Page 17

The .380 round for SD

This is a discussion on The .380 round for SD within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 10thmtn Do people carry higher capacities because they miss; or do they miss because they know they have so many more chances ...

Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7 13 14 15 16 17
Results 241 to 254 of 254
Like Tree594Likes

Thread: The .380 round for SD

  1. #241
    Member Array since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Do people carry higher capacities because they miss; or do they miss because they know they have so many more chances to hit?
    If someone could provide reasonable assurances I would only ever be dealing with one violent criminal, I might very well decide six rounds was enough.

    I think marksmanship was better, out of necessity, in the wheelgun days. Would be interesting to look up.
    My grandfather, b. 1902, carried his .410 shotgun to school every day, beginning around the third or fourth grade. His dad gave him one cartridge. If he hit his target, supper would be plentiful, as a good-sized rabbit provided meat enough several members of the family. If he missed, well, being the youngest of nine kids, seconds were hard to come by. Living on the farm, they always had plenty of fruits and vegetables, though. Often fresh, but at least canned during the winter.

    I may be marksmanship was better, out of necessity, all right, but in everyday tasks, such as procuring dinner. Gun duals were actually quite rare.
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

  2. #242
    Member Array starlights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Bro.. a gunfight is a gunfight. The only difference in those 3 classes of individual is the overall likelihood of encountering danger. People seeking out or ferreting out dangerous people are going to easily be considered more likely to find those circumstances than those who are not seeking it. All that said, its not unreasonable to perhaps arm yourself a little better if you are walking onto the field of battle. The bottom line is that bad people do bad things to other people and one mans gunfight is no less perilous than another mans gunfight. A LEO may never find himself/herself in a gunfight and a citizen going to corner store for milk- might. Handguns are minimalist weapons to begin with and what is good for one person in the name of SD is as good for another, no matter their job classification. If the suggestion is that the FBI needs one caliber, patrol LEOs need another and Citizen can get buy with yet another.. I consider that a silly notion.


    - no my point was police/fbi/and average person have different needs and risks
    - you are *NOT* likley to EVER get into a "GUNFIGHT" as an average-joe CCW person
    - your ccw gun will sit in your pocket for decades gathering dust and retire uneventfully... that is a 99.9999% probability

    - now for police and fbi all of that changes significantly, thus their needs are different from 'average guys' needs

    - lots of CCW people THINK that they will get into some tactical 1/2-hour long gun-battle with Darth Vader, but reality says you're more likley to win the Powerball jackpot.... twice...











    :)

  3. #243
    Member Array starlights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    Not being argumentative, but there are multiple reasons why neither the military nor civilian police carry it.

    Moral: Carry the largest-caliber weapion you can control and conceal.

    - CCW holder is NOT 'military' OR 'police'
    - we are regular good people with guns
    - our requirements are statistically and practically different from military or law enforcement
    - largest caliber theory in non-LEO situations is irrelevant, again talk to CITY cops who see dead people shot from 22s 32s and 380s ALL the time

    - the best caliber is the one you have
    - if anyone thinks a 22 is petting zoo, please, stand in front of a gun loaded with one.
    - it will stop you just fine

    - now FBI doing raids with 22's? not a good idea... but average CCW holders, dispite carrying guns, are not police, special agents, delta-force, space-force, 007, CIA or any other type of commando..


    .
    Rabbit212 likes this.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #244
    Senior Member Array KevinRohrer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Medina, Ohio
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by starlights View Post
    - CCW holder is NOT 'military' OR 'police'
    - we are regular good people with guns
    - our requirements are statistically and practically different from military or law enforcement
    - largest caliber theory in non-LEO situations is irrelevant, again talk to CITY cops who see dead people shot from 22s 32s and 380s ALL the time

    - the best caliber is the one you have
    - if anyone thinks a 22 is petting zoo, please, stand in front of a gun loaded with one.
    - it will stop you just fine

    - now FBI doing raids with 22's? not a good idea... but average CCW holders, dispite carrying guns, are not police, special agents, delta-force, space-force, 007, CIA or any other type of commando..


    .
    I agree w/ everything here, but you missed the point--and that is fine as I am not here to argue.
    Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, American Legion

  6. #245
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Southern State USA
    Posts
    3,945
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    I agree w/ everything here, but you missed the point--and that is fine as I am not here to argue.
    yep..
    Think like a man of action - Act like a man of thought

  7. #246
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    404 Page Not Found
    Posts
    22,237
    It doesn't matter what our requirements are. If evidence suggests something else is better, regardless of mission or objective, we are allowed same.

    It all boils down to shooting good with what you have, no?
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here



    "If we suppose them sincere, we must pity their ignorance; if insincere, we must abhor the spirit of deception which it betrays." Alexander Hamilton

  8. #247
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    17,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    It doesn't matter what our requirements are. If evidence suggests something else is better, regardless of mission or objective, we are allowed same.

    It all boils down to shooting good with what you have, no?
    Yes, I think that is an accurate statement.

    A great example for me is that today we took some foster children to a new park here in town that has an awesome playground.
    Not wanting to be unarmed, but then again not wanting to carry anything at all, I slipped the BG in the pocket, 2 spare mags in the opposite pocket, and off we go.

    For the entire weekend, I have chosen to go light, around the house and little excursions away from home. The 380 is perfect for me in this role.

    Monday morning, it’s back to the 1911. Everything has a role to play, and my life is not one constant state readiness.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
    -Jeff Cooper

    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
    -Joe Foss

  9. #248
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,679
    I carry a .45 at times because I know what it feels like to stare down a .45 muzzle. I also carry a 9 mm because, well, it's a S&W 6906 and I love the gun. If I had a .380, I'd carry it also. Don't overthink caliber capability. They all succeed; they all fail. A miss with any of them is still just a miss.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  10. #249
    Member Array SDGlock23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    166
    I do own a 380 (Glock 42) and while it's not my first choice for concealed carry (usually G27 or SP101) all the time, its size has its advantages. The G42 is small enough to conceal very well but big enough to shoot very well, unlike many small 380's. There are decent 380 loads out there and even still, I'm not crazy about 380 ACP ballistics but that being said, the 380 ACP has put a lot of people in the ground so there is some truth to the idea that we often overthink caliber effectiveness.
    Holmes375 and ETXhiker like this.

  11. #250
    Member Array 4Wathers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    42
    A Norwegian man was killed Tuesday night after trying to give his father-in-law—an armed Florida homeowner—a birthday surprise. Police say 37-year-old Christopher Bergan flew in from Norway to surprise Richard Dennis on his 61st birthday. He knocked on Dennis' back door in the Pensacola suburb of Gulf Breeze at around 11:30pm then jumped out from bushes to surprise him, the Pensacola News Journal reports. Dennis, however, had earlier argued with a relative who banged on the front door and answered his back door armed with a .380 semi-automatic firearm. Police say he fired at Bergan when he jumped out, instantly killing his son-in-law with a shot to the heart.
    Rabbit212 likes this.

  12. #251
    Member
    Array Talldog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Wathers
    A Norwegian man was killed Tuesday night after trying to give his father-in-law—an armed Florida homeowner—a birthday surprise. Police say 37-year-old Christopher Bergan flew in from Norway to surprise Richard Dennis on his 61st birthday. He knocked on Dennis' back door in the Pensacola suburb of Gulf Breeze at around 11:30pm then jumped out from bushes to surprise him, the Pensacola News Journal reports. Dennis, however, had earlier argued with a relative who banged on the front door and answered his back door armed with a .380 semi-automatic firearm. Police say he fired at Bergan when he jumped out, instantly killing his son-in-law with a shot to the heart.
    I have a hunch this won't be considered a good shoot.
    ETXhiker likes this.

  13. #252
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,679
    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    I have a hunch this won't be considered a good shoot.
    Bit of an older story, no charges files.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  14. #253
    Distinguished Member Array CavemanBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Kalirado
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by starlights View Post
    - CCW holder is NOT 'military' OR 'police'
    - we are regular good people with guns
    - our requirements are statistically and practically different from military or law enforcement
    - largest caliber theory in non-LEO situations is irrelevant, again talk to CITY cops who see dead people shot from 22s 32s and 380s ALL the time

    - the best caliber is the one you have
    - if anyone thinks a 22 is petting zoo, please, stand in front of a gun loaded with one.
    - it will stop you just fine

    - now FBI doing raids with 22's? not a good idea... but average CCW holders, dispite carrying guns, are not police, special agents, delta-force, space-force, 007, CIA or any other type of commando..


    .
    Sorry, a 22 is completely inadequate for the task of a CCW self-defense pistol. The question isn't, does X caliber cause death, the question is how rapidly on average will X caliber cause incapacitation. The 22 lr in a handgun on average given a COM hit on average causes a slow death from blood loss but rarely causes immediate incapacitation. In the absence of statistical evidence, I think we'd agree that a 500 S&W given a COM hit on average causes immediate incapacitation. I think most would agree that there is probably a relationship such that everything in between those two extremities is on a more/less linear scale with regard to incapacitation speed. It gets very complex due to the number of variables but holding those variables constant, most would agree that at 357 RM falls in between, perhaps close to the middle, of those two extremities.

    BTW, I've been on the receiving end of a 22, a guy tried to shoot me in the back, missed and hit my arm. The bullet penetrated the tricep, glanced off the bone and lodged in my bicep. Did it incapacitate me to any degree? No, but it did make me mad. Had that been a 500 S&W, it would have effectively removed my arm causing a significant incapacitation and quite possibly death due to blood loss.
    A
    ETXhiker, CDW4ME and OD* like this.
    The best citizenry is an informed citizenry

    NRA Patron member

  15. #254
    Member Array since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by CavemanBob View Post
    Sorry, a 22 is completely inadequate for the task of a CCW self-defense pistol.
    An acquaintance of mine has a 30-round .22 pistol (and the authorizing license/certificate). Having fired it, I'd beg to differ!

    But yes, you're speaking of a self-defense weapon suitable for the average human against bad guys who may very well be hopped up on one or more drugs. Ergo, even though the .22 has long been used as an assassination round, that's not in the same category at all as self-defense.

    The question isn't, does X caliber cause death, the question is how rapidly on average will X caliber cause incapacitation.
    Stopping power.

    The 22 lr in a handgun on average given a COM hit on average causes a slow death from blood loss but rarely causes immediate incapacitation. In the absence of statistical evidence, I think we'd agree that a 500 S&W given a COM hit on average causes immediate incapacitation. I think most would agree that there is probably a relationship such that everything in between those two extremities is on a more/less linear scale with regard to incapacitation speed. It gets very complex due to the number of variables but holding those variables constant, most would agree that at 357 RM falls in between, perhaps close to the middle, of those two extremities.
    Oh, I think it's a good deal closer to the 500 S&W than it is to a .22. After all, what's the difference between 0.2 seconds and 0.6 seconds? Hypothetical values, yes, but if the 357 takes three times longer to achieve the same result but the difference is less than half a second, when it would take minutes, if not hours from a 22, it's largely immaterial.

    BTW, I've been on the receiving end of a 22, a guy tried to shoot me in the back, missed and hit my arm. The bullet penetrated the tricep, glanced off the bone and lodged in my bicep. Did it incapacitate me to any degree? No, but it did make me mad. Had that been a 500 S&W, it would have effectively removed my arm causing a significant incapacitation and quite possibly death due to blood loss.
    A
    Aye...
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7 13 14 15 16 17

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •