The .380 round for SD - Page 8

The .380 round for SD

This is a discussion on The .380 round for SD within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Few people carry a heavy gun like a .45 or a .357 magnum around all the time for concealed carry. That's why people like Emmett ...

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Thread: The .380 round for SD

  1. #106
    Distinguished Member Array GpTom's Avatar
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    Few people carry a heavy gun like a .45 or a .357 magnum around all the time for concealed carry. That's why people like Emmett Corrigan died from being shot with a LCP in Idaho in 2011. Robert Hall shot him twice and he died right away on the Walgreens parking lot where he was shot. I started carrying the LCP because I figured that it was as powerful of a gun as I could carry for the amount of weight involved. Nearly all .9mm handguns weigh two and a half to three times as much as the LCP. If you really try you will find that a lot of people have died from being shot with a round or two from a .380. I think a lot of people have hangups about the size of the round when the .380 and the .9mm are the same sized bullet with a different load. I have both and I have to be careful that I don't load the wrong one in which gun I am using.
    Last edited by GpTom; August 19th, 2019 at 01:19 AM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Just a friendly thought. We don't shoot to kill...we shoot to stop the threat. Reminding ourselves of that truth is excellent practice should, God forbid, we ever have to shoot.

    The times I heard someone say "I shot him because I wanted to kill him" or some other such thing, it never went well with the shooter.

    On the other hand, a guy who told us he had to shoot to "stop the threat to me and my family...the guy was going to kill us", after an investigation, no charges filed.
    Defender: "I shot to stop the threat."

    Cops: "What did you shoot him with? A lawn mower?"
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    How many times must we see defenseless people die before we realize being defenseless is NOT the answer? // The First protects the Second and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect everything else.

  3. #108
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GpTom View Post
    Few people carry a heavy gun like a .45 or a .357 magnum around all the time for concealed carry. That's why people like Emmett Corrigan died from being shot with a LCP in Idaho in 2011. Robert Hall shot him twice and he died right away on the Walgreens parking lot where he was shot. I started carrying the LCP because I figured that it was as powerful of a gun as I could carry for the amount of weight involved. Nearly all .9mm handguns weigh two and a half to three times as much as the LCP. If you really try you will find that a lot of people have died form being shot with a round or two from a .380. I think a lot of people have hangups about the size of the round when the .380 and the .9mm are the same sized bullet with a different load. I have both and I have to be careful that I don't load the wrong one in which gun I am using.
    While you are correct that both 9mm and .380 use the same diameter bullet...that’s pretty much where their equivalencies end. The 9mm bullet will be faster AND heavier, pretty much across the board...and that makes a world of difference when it comes to terminal performance and affecting a rapid stop...which is a lot more important in a defensive situation than lethality.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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  5. #109
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    By the way a 380 will not penetrate a truck tire. . Wrong again it will not only penetrate but at 50 feet will go through both sidewalls of a fully inflated one and it will also go through the thread of one. Entrance and exit were almost straight across. I had rolled the tire to get a look.
    Fired from LCP gen1
    Go out back shoot some stuff other than silly orange stuff the blows up . Find out what your rounds will do. test out the M855A1 enhance round wow.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The .380 round for SD-dscn7460.jpg  

    The .380 round for SD-dscn7462.jpg  

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  6. #110
    Distinguished Member Array Rabbit212's Avatar
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    Got a Bersa Thunder 380 coming in this week and if it runs well I plan to make it my at work ccw.
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    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them.....well, I have others.

  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    While you are correct that both 9mm and .380 use the same diameter bullet...
    Close, but not quite.

    ...that’s pretty much where their equivalencies end. The 9mm bullet will be faster AND heavier, pretty much across the board...and that makes a world of difference when it comes to terminal performance and affecting a rapid stop...which is a lot more important in a defensive situation than lethality.
    There's some difference, to be sure, and it's significant. But I wouldn't call it "a world of difference."

    Let's compare two basic FMJ rounds. The first is a 95 gr, 980 fps .380 ACP. The second is a 115, 1,180 fps 9mm Parabellum.

    The 9mm has 75.5% more kinetic energy, 45.8% more momentum, and 59.9% more "stopping power," a more realistic factor I created a decade ago simply by multiplying the KE and p and taking their square root.

    So, measurable? Yes. However, it's nowhere near even twice that of the .380 ACP.
    How many times must we see defenseless people die before we realize being defenseless is NOT the answer? // The First protects the Second and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect everything else.

  8. #112
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Close, but not quite.



    There's some difference, to be sure, and it's significant. But I wouldn't call it "a world of difference."

    Let's compare two basic FMJ rounds. The first is a 95 gr, 980 fps .380 ACP. The second is a 115, 1,180 fps 9mm Parabellum.

    The 9mm has 75.5% more kinetic energy, 45.8% more momentum, and 59.9% more "stopping power," a more realistic factor I created a decade ago simply by multiplying the KE and p and taking their square root.

    So, measurable? Yes. However, it's nowhere near even twice that of the .380 ACP.
    Bullet diameters for both are, normally, .355. Some manufacturers vary, but, Hornady, for instance lists a 90gr bullet at .355, same for a 124gr. Berry’s .380 are listed at .356...but so are their 9mm.

    I’ve found basing “stopping power” based on mainly on on KE to be...misguided. But you do you.

    What a 9mm can do that a .380 cannot is RELIABLY have a bullet–many bullets, for that matter–that will both expand AND penetrate deeply...something a .380 can barely do, with only one or two bullets (Hornady XTP, in various loading).

    This has more to do in getting a rapid stop than anything else–given equal placement.
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  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Bullet diameters for both are, normally, .355. Some manufacturers vary, but, Hornady, for instance lists a 90gr bullet at .355, same for a 124gr. Berry’s .380 are listed at .356...but so are their 9mm.
    You're right! However, the 9mm won't fit in .380 barrel and the .380 is dangerously loose in a 9mm barrel because one has a .392 and the other a .374 rim diameter.

    I didn't know the dimensions, but I did know the case exterior diameters were different. I'd wrongly assumed the bullets have different diameters.

    My bad.

    I’ve found basing “stopping power” based on mainly on on KE to be...misguided. But you do you.
    It's a component. So's momentum, hence my simple approach: multiply KE and momentum then take the square root.

    What a 9mm can do that a .380 cannot is RELIABLY have a bullet—many bullets, for that matter—that will both expand AND penetrate deeply...something a .380 can barely do, with only one or two bullets (Hornady XTP, in various loading).

    This has more to do in getting a rapid stop than anything else—given equal placement.
    Even so, you're still looking at roughly 60% more stopping power, not double.
    How many times must we see defenseless people die before we realize being defenseless is NOT the answer? // The First protects the Second and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect everything else.

  10. #114
    VIP Member Array Sister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GpTom View Post
    Few people carry a heavy gun like a .45 or a .357 magnum around all the time for concealed carry. That's why people like Emmett Corrigan died g.

    What makes you say that GPTom? Our family carries those, I carry the .357 and my husband the .45 with no problem. We both believe those calibers are sufficient as in only one bullet is needed

    Not sure who Emmett is but I’m sorry he died. The guns area a bit heavy, did he get in the pond with them and he couldn’t swim? That would do it, sink like rock.
    Trust God.

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    Think about it.

  11. #115
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GpTom View Post
    Few people carry a heavy gun like a .45 or a .357 magnum around all the time for concealed carry.
    Maybe not a 45 or 357 but according to responses to "What handgun have you carried most in the last 30 days" it is something bigger than a 380.
    I'll count through the additional responses sometime today, but after 100 replies about 70 reported carrying at least a compact size pistol or bigger.
    I don't think its inaccurate to say that most people are carrying at least 9mm for concealed carry.
    https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...e-12-a-12.html
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  12. #116
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    You're right! However, the 9mm won't fit in .380 barrel and the .380 is dangerously loose in a 9mm barrel because one has a .392 and the other a .374 rim diameter.

    I didn't know the dimensions, but I did know the case exterior diameters were different. I'd wrongly assumed the bullets have different diameters.

    My bad.



    It's a component. So's momentum, hence my simple approach: multiply KE and momentum then take the square root.



    Even so, you're still looking at roughly 60% more stopping power, not double.

    And that 60% makes a world of difference.

    “Double” are your words, not mine.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  13. #117
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    Bullit Math. Meh.
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  14. #118
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    While I certainly do believe the evidence that the .380 can be a viable defensive weapon, I am still working to accept going from .45 to 9mm a few months ago. One can believe and understand facts, but one's heart makes its own decisions. I will carry the largest and most powerful caliber I am capable of operating at the time.
    Be careful of people who brag about who they are - a lion will never have to tell you who he's a lion.

  15. #119
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    ....It's a component. So's momentum, hence my simple approach: multiply KE and momentum then take the square root.

    Even so, you're still looking at roughly 60% more stopping power, not double.
    Aahaaa....and now we know who is responsible for the "stopping power myth."

    Brother...you need to do some ride alongs with CSPD or EL Paso Co. SO. You'll get a far, far better education about "stopping power" than any formula you've ever imagined.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

  16. #120
    VIP Member Array Cornhusker95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavygravy View Post
    Bullit Math. Meh.
    Bullit or Bullet?
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