Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy. - Page 2

Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy.

This is a discussion on Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sometimes all you can do is be prepared to die well....

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Thread: Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Sometimes all you can do is be prepared to die well.
    "You talk a lot, but you're not saying anything" - Psycho Killer, The Talking Heads

    "The winds are crying, 'Remember me;' Through the Holy silence of the desert and the sea; The next armada, waiting for the tide; Wind and rain are nothing to the storm inside" - Running on the Rocks, Shriekback

  2. #17
    VIP Member Array PhaedrusIV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    I'm single, plenty of people love me, but they don't have to depend on me. If I escaped and other's didn't it would haunt me forever.

    Very low probability, but I plan on doing my best to engage.
    Yes, Brother Matthew, live to bend another holster - Charlie wants one or more of your designs.
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    - testing was halted after a brief kinetic episode -

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array CreedDryrot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGurgeMan View Post
    I'd rather be down the sights of an officer than down the sights of a perp. Throw down whats in your hands and get on the ground and hope for the best is all you can do really.
    That sounds like you're expecting the police officer to try to hold you at gun point, shout commands at you to put down the gun, and apprehend you. They won't. They'll see a gun in your hand, believe you to be the shooter, and shoot you without you realizing they're there, before you can shoot someone again.

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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    In the referenced article, the guy and his loved ones were (at the moment) out of harm's way and he made the decision to rush towards the gunfire. Heroic? Yes. Smart? Not so much.

    I carry to protect myself, my loved ones, and (possibly) anyone in my general vicinity should we be in harm's way. I made the conscious decision to carry and take responsibility for my and mine's safety. As a civilian, that is my sole responsibility. That is reality and what I mentally tell myself...again and again. That-being-said, I don't know what I would do in the heat of the moment if I were alone. I might be stupid enough to answer the clarion's call. Were I with family, I would absolutely do whatever it takes to keep them safe.
    KNOWLEDGE: A tomato is a fruit.
    WISDOM: Not putting a tomato in a fruit salad.
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  6. #20
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    @DaGunny said it all for me. I do not know what I would do. It would depend on circumstances. Distance to target, available cover, bystanders in the path, where the shooter is focused on, is he reloading, and other things that might be factors. As for me, a widower, with grown children and well taken care of grandchildren I would engage if it was not suicide. I lost my fear of death 50 years ago. I learned that death is random. I hate bad guys.
    "You don't hurt them if you don't hit them." Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC Retired

    USMC 9/59 through 9/69
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Sometimes all you can do is be prepared to die well.
    Well? I plan on going out screaming and kicking.
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    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Well? I plan on going out screaming and kicking.
    I'm planning on showing up late to my funeral.
    Democracy:
    Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSKnight View Post
    I'm planning on showing up late to my funeral.
    I'm not showing up. Advantage - Curmudgeon.
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    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array ButtShot14's Avatar
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    matthew03 I like the way you think.
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array ButtShot14's Avatar
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    CreedDryro you are exactly correct. The cops will shoot ANY person with a gun they happen across at a mass shooting incident. Take that to the bank.

  12. #26
    Member Array Spokane1969's Avatar
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    I would rather take my chances with LE knowing at least I tried to do the right thing. Sitting on the sideline doesn't fit my persona anyway.
    Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more. George S. Patton

  13. #27
    Member Array tnsoldier4fun's Avatar
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    Can you be killed by a cop, or even another good guy, if you try to respond and stop the active shooter? Yes, that very thing happened to Maj. Rufus Gates, Memphis PD, in the early '90s when a fellow officer didn't recognize him as an officer. It's a possibility that is very real. The scene will most likely be chaotic, people running and screaming, shots ringing out, to say nothing of possible Walter Mitty-types who might have negligible training but experiencing the very real effects of an adrenaline dump being in the vicinity. While I can't say what I would do for sure, I don't think I could live with myself very well knowing that I had the means and the training to try to stop the carnage and I did nothing. If put in that situation, I would hope that I would move to stop the evil and that a higher power will see me come out of that crucible alive and intact.
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  14. #28
    Member Array since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreedDryrot View Post
    That sounds like you're expecting the police officer to try to hold you at gun point, shout commands at you to put down the gun, and apprehend you. They won't. They'll see a gun in your hand, believe you to be the shooter, and shoot you without you realizing they're there, before you can shoot someone again.
    Possibly. Highly unlikely.

    Regardless, here's some advice from three good friends, all of who are former cops, says pretty much the same thing: Never be in possession of a firearm when the cops arrive.

    Instead:

    1. If you shot the bad guy and there's no reason to continue to hold on to your weapon, empty it, pocket any magazines or rounds and place the unloaded firearm on the ground near but not next to the bad guy.

    2. Be the one to call 911, if you can. Immediately identify yourself as the shooter so they don't cut you off with, "Yeah, we just got five calls for the same thing."

    3. Keep the scene clear, if at all possible. Enlist the help of others, particularly the owner. If a friend or relative of the bad guy cradles the body, don't interfere.

    4. Take pictures of the scene, if at all possible.

    5. As the cops are arriving, but before they get there, leave your phone on but pocket it and place your hands on top of your head. Leave them there, even while talking to the cops. You don't want to take off your holster, as that's evidence, too. Removing it might incriminate you.

    6. LET the cops arrest you. It's often procedure.

    7. Do not admit you shot the guy. Do say, "I was in fear for my life, I drew, I directed him to X, I fired." Leave it at "fired." After all, you don't know whether or not it was your bullets that impacted the guy, either.

    8. As to all other questions, just say, "I'd like to answer your questions, but I think it's better if I speak to my attorney." If they try talking you out of it, firm up and say, "No, I'm not going to say anything else except to my attorney."

    Rehearse this, as often as you would any home invasion or active shooter scenario, until you know it cold.
    matthew03 likes this.
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

  15. #29
    Member Array since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnsoldier4fun View Post
    Can you be killed by a cop, or even another good guy, if you try to respond and stop the active shooter? Yes, that very thing happened to Maj. Rufus Gates, Memphis PD, in the early '90s when a fellow officer didn't recognize him as an officer. It's a possibility that is very real. The scene will most likely be chaotic, people running and screaming, shots ringing out, to say nothing of possible Walter Mitty-types who might have negligible training but experiencing the very real effects of an adrenaline dump being in the vicinity. While I can't say what I would do for sure, I don't think I could live with myself very well knowing that I had the means and the training to try to stop the carnage and I did nothing. If put in that situation, I would hope that I would move to stop the evil and that a higher power will see me come out of that crucible alive and intact.
    Brings up a great point: If a shooting is under way, what's your response? Will it be to shoot the shooter? Or will it be to slink into the woodwork?

    As for me, it would depend on the situation.
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array CreedDryrot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Possibly. Highly unlikely.

    Regardless, here's some advice from three good friends, all of who are former cops, says pretty much the same thing: Never be in possession of a firearm when the cops arrive.
    .
    What is highly unlikely? That you'll be shot by the cops? That's already happened.

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