Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy. - Page 4

Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy.

This is a discussion on Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by jmf552 Not to be argumentative, but just thinking this through. So you are in a venue and you hear shots being fired, ...

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 70
Like Tree175Likes

Thread: Engaging an active shooter is double dangerous for the good guy.

  1. #46
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion county, Ohio
    Posts
    32,441
    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Not to be argumentative, but just thinking this through. So you are in a venue and you hear shots being fired, you realize it's an active shooter and the situation is such that you decide to take him on rather than escape. You are going to keep your gun holstered until you can see him because you are worried about getting shot by cops who obviously aren't there yet, because if they were, they would be engaging the shooter. I don't follow that logic.

    I would be worried about approaching a shooter without my gun out. If it were a situation where I could not already see him and I was moving toward the danger, I could very well go around a corner and come face-to-face with him. I would want every advantage, including having my gun out, ready to shoot the instant I could. I doubt a cop, even an off duty, plainclothes cop, would do that if he were stalking the shooter. He would have his gun out. A saying I like is, "When the enemy is in range, so are you." Or said another way, "If you see the enemy, he can see you." I would want every chance at getting the first shot.

    The rest of your advice I get.
    Fleeing would-be and actual victims don't know who you are, nor do others in your immediate proximity. Drawn guns attract unwanted attention, regardless.
    matthew03, ddrew and AzQkr like this.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    3,235
    I’ve thought this through several times.

    To me, unless you actually see the shooter at the very beginning of the event...well, I’ll run down the outcomes as I see them.

    You go looking for the shooter and:

    Find them and engage them.

    Are unable to find them and:

    Engage the wrong person—another armed citizen going looking that you mistake for the shooter, plainclothes LE that you are unable to see a badge, etc.

    Are engaged by others who think YOU are the shooter (see above, and add in uniformed LE).

    In addition—if LE has to engage you, thinking you are the shooter, whether you get shot or not—you are pulling resources away from responding to the actual shooter.

    To me, the chances of a bad outcome, or one that makes things worse, are much higher than that of the outcome most folks think of.

    Again—if the situation unfolds in front of you—do what you gotta do.

    But if you are going to rush in—be honest and realize the chances of you making things worse are likely higher than that of making things better.

    My thoughts, after some serious consideration on the topic.
    patkelly4370 and ddrew like this.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    West Branch
    Posts
    5,964
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    I’ve thought this through several times.

    To me, unless you actually see the shooter at the very beginning of the event...well, I’ll run down the outcomes as I see them.

    You go looking for the shooter and:

    Find them and engage them.

    Are unable to find them and:

    Engage the wrong person—another armed citizen going looking that you mistake for the shooter, plainclothes LE that you are unable to see a badge, etc.

    Are engaged by others who think YOU are the shooter (see above, and add in uniformed LE).

    In addition—if LE has to engage you, thinking you are the shooter, whether you get shot or not—you are pulling resources away from responding to the actual shooter.

    To me, the chances of a bad outcome, or one that makes things worse, are much higher than that of the outcome most folks think of.

    Again—if the situation unfolds in front of you—do what you gotta do.

    But if you are going to rush in—be honest and realize the chances of you making things worse are likely higher than that of making things better.

    My thoughts, after some serious consideration on the topic.
    I'll be yelling out, "yo Homey, is that my rifle?" for a distraction while you make your move.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
    Doghandler
    We have deep thinkers and stinkers in this group that could come up with a solution...
    welder516
    Buck the donkey

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #49
    Member Array since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    329
    IF I have the opportunity to take out an active shooter, I'll certainly not shy away from it. I've been in combat, both military as well as a couple of street fights.

    However, I am not a cop. I have no POST training. My primary duty as an armed citizen is to protect myself and my family. Others are secondary.

    I'm not likely to go chasing after an active shooter, particularly if I hear pops are in the distance. I'm as likely to to be their next target as I am the one who stops them.

    On the other hand, if I have a clear tactical advantage...
    Wavygravy likes this.
    How many times must we see defenseless people die before we realize being defenseless is NOT the answer? // The First protects the Second and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect everything else.

  6. #50
    Member Array GotchaCovered's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    270
    If being mistaken by LEO's as an active shooter is a concern, as it should be, if you decide to engage the real shooter remember their response time is usually in minutes from a 911 call. The Dayton shooting LE was already there and killed the shooter in seconds. So engaging the shooter as quickly as possible, if possible, is in everyone's benefit.
    Mike1956, matthew03 and since9 like this.

  7. #51
    New Member Array Jjones45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    52
    Yet another thread that proves a good guy with a gun means absolutely nothing during a mass shooting. It seem to me a large majority of those who carry guns everyday have already made up their minds they would do absolutely nothing because of the risk involved. A gun is supposed to be your last ditch effort, but during an AS situation when people are getting slaughtered I feel it changes a bit.
    You don’t owe anybody to be a hero, but the good guy with a gun motto needs to go by the wayside because it is pretty much American gun owner folklore. I’d say 99% of people are only worried about saving themselves. Priorities are personal.
    Bikenut, Mike1956, since9 and 2 others like this.

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    981
    The main priority for me is not becoming a statistic. Anything that would occur beyond that would be bonus points and determined by the situation as it were happening. About the only scenario I can imagine where I would definitely engage a threat is the one in which it is the only possible option to avoid immediate personal injury or worse.
    Wavygravy, since9 and Cuda66 like this.

  9. #53
    Senior Member
    Array Wavygravy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Frodebro View Post
    The main priority for me is not becoming a statistic. Anything that would occur beyond that would be bonus points and determined by the situation as it were happening. About the only scenario I can imagine where I would definitely engage a threat is the one in which it is the only possible option to avoid immediate personal injury or worse.
    +2. Or my wife in immediate personal injury or worse....
    since9 likes this.
    Charlie Co. 101st Assault Helicopter Battalion (Wings of the Eagle), 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile)
    Phu Bai, Vietnam 1971-72

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    West Branch
    Posts
    5,964
    Who wouldn't engage an active shooter if an opportunity revealed?

    matthew03 likes this.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
    Doghandler
    We have deep thinkers and stinkers in this group that could come up with a solution...
    welder516
    Buck the donkey

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,213
    Quote Originally Posted by Frodebro View Post
    The main priority for me is not becoming a statistic.
    You become that the moment you're born.
    Double Naught Spy likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    4,906
    Quote Originally Posted by Frodebro View Post
    The main priority for me is not becoming a statistic.
    87% of people are a statistic. 9% are not. 4% are undecided.
    Frodebro likes this.
    Psalm 144:1

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    1,051
    Definitely something to think about, but I'm guessing the stats would say the whole thing could be over by the time the cops got there if there were one or more legally armed citizens fighting back. Or at least put the perp in a much defensive mode to allow people to retreat. Also some perps off themselves if they think they are cornered. But yeah, definitely a risk of intervening and putting yourself in harms way. Cowardly perps target gun free zones and expect zero resistance. Just a few good stories about citizens fighting back would serve as a yuuuge deterrent to future cowards.

  14. #58
    Sponsor
    Array AzQkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the Superstitions
    Posts
    19,425
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    If you are ever in a place where an active shooter or terrorist attack situation suddenly breaks out, your options are definitive. First, try to escape if there is any way you can do this. If you cannot escape, get to cover and get small, if you can do this. If you are within close proximity to a shooter and have the opportunity, kill them. The idea of stopping them, such as in a robbery, should not be your goal. You want to kill them because their whole agenda is a large body count. Much different than someone who wants your wallet and your keys.

    [This information was paraphrased from a book I read not long ago entitled "Facing the Active Shooter" by CR Williams.]


    The OP's concerns about possibly being a target of police when they arrive on scene while you are trying to defend yourself with your firearm are well taken and real. SA would be your best friend and hopefully you would see them coming in and react accordingly. It would be a hell of a thing to take out a few shooters and then be mistakenly taken out yourself by police.
    CR Williams actually wrote that or you paraphrased? I'm not enamored with espousing kill anyone for any reason, whether it's a robbery of one or an AS trying to take out many, the objective remains the same, stop the aggression. That may or may not lead to an untimely death, but the mindset isn't to kill, it's to stop the threat in either a robbery or AS event IF they present as an imminent threat to grave bodily harm or death.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  15. #59
    Sponsor
    Array AzQkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the Superstitions
    Posts
    19,425
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Fleeing would-be and actual victims don't know who you are, nor do others in your immediate proximity. Drawn guns attract unwanted attention, regardless.
    Hence my position that unless I'm actually being targeted and have to respond, I'm exit stage left. Used to be my fight in a past life even if it wasn't myself being targeted, now it's not. 28 years of hunting bipedal BG's, entering the lions den knowing you're going to get bit or clawed to death [ section 8/inner city projects ] and surviving that long has given me an appreciation for NOT getting involved unless evil has targeted me. Just the way it is.

    There's so much that can go wrong, and the stars have to align just right for it to end successfully in your favor. Playing the odds, my best option is to exit stage left unless I'm being targeted. I'm no longer under any obligation or duty to protect anyone but me and mine, and there are no mine, so it makes it fairly straight forward.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,213
    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    There's so much that can go wrong, and the stars have to align just right for it to end successfully in your favor.
    Like this?
    Name:  star.png
Views: 44
Size:  112.7 KB
    AzQkr likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •