Run, Hide, Fight - Page 5

Run, Hide, Fight

This is a discussion on Run, Hide, Fight within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; people who scoff at this sort of instruction may be missing the point. Its about moving the thought of workplace violence from a stagnant portion ...

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Thread: Run, Hide, Fight

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    people who scoff at this sort of instruction may be missing the point. Its about moving the thought of workplace violence from a stagnant portion of the brain to a more receptive portion of the brain, its about prompting people to think about what they are actually willing to do, offering a sense of control and hope though a willingness and potential to act, encouraging them to formulate a plan and carry out a plan rather than suffer from despair and inaction. The more people who are willing to act, the greater potential for others to follow and thus, avoiding stagnation, inaction, despair and mindless panic. If you look a little beyond the surface logic, there is a little more involved than simply throwing a potted plant.
    Cuda66, G-man*, Instymp and 4 others like this.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Array KevinRohrer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottync View Post
    We were further lectured on "run, hide and fight", plus environmental awareness, getting to know people in our environment, reporting suspicious people (including current employees), etc.
    That is from a federal program and uses that terminology. Most likely your instructor was spouting everything he learned from a text on the same subject.

    I just went to ALICE Instructor training. It uses the same concepts in different ways but w/ different terminology w/o the political commentary, and is useful in schools, churches, businesses, etc.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Care to share?
    It was a lot to put in a post, but it had to do with choosing what kinds of rooms would make good shelter, some innovative ways to secure doors and where to be in the room if the shooter decides to shoot through the walls. I remember all of it, but it would take pictures to explain.

    The main thing is appreciate the psychology of mass shooters. They want a lot of victims. They want to see the victims die. And they want to keep moving. If you can barricade yourself for even a few minutes and avoid incoming, the shooter will likely move on to victims he can see go down.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I will take some issue with the idea that "hide" is not a viable option. I took an Active Shooter course at the NRA HQ that was very well done. They showed us some shelter options that I would not have thought of that seemed like they would be very effective. They also emphasized that "escape and evade" has been the most successful option for survival in actual situations they instructors had studied. It left me feeling that "fight" is actually the last ditch option.
    My mantra is move, seek cover, conceal if possible until you have the opening to fight. What is the difference between it and run, hide, fight? Mindset. I do not speak sheep. For me defense is a momentary gear shift from neutral to fight.
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    "You don't hurt them if you don't hit them." Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC Retired

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  6. #65
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    We talk about work place violence where I work. I just sit there and listen, 442 on my hip, and try not to laugh. Too old to run and waiting for my killer to find me is not very appealing. Plus, I donít think I could live with myself if I ran away while a maniac was slaughtering good people. I guess Iím old fashioned but these shootings piss me off. I donít live in fear and I donít fear death, I have faith. Itís the lack of faith in this country that will be our downfall.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Unfortunately cowering is exactly what some of my kids schools have taught. Iíve told them to run unless that would get them shot. I donít care if the teacher gets mad that they find a creative escape (back doors, windows).

    If they absolutely must hide Iíve told them to ambush and be ready with anything they can hit hard or stab with. Once un-hidden they need to immediately transition to aggressive, mean, unfair, deadly attack. Itís hard for kids to do unless an adult has already told them to and given them permission to act on their own as needed without waiting for the teacher to approve.

    Most on this forum get it, but out there in public spaces not so much it seems.
    True--I remember when my daughter was in high school (college now), she was a drum major and said that if it happened when she was in band class, she would prep with her mace (4' long stick with a hard metal ball on one end and a spike on the other for driving it into the ground). I didn't relish the idea of my daughter potentially going up against someone with a gun with nothing more than a big stick, but a big stick, an element of surprise, and determination just might be effective. (That metal ball was totally capable of doing major damage if swung with intent--I saw the bruises when she was learning to throw it and missed her catch.)

  8. #67
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    Run: Run for cover

    Hide: Assess situation & plan action (not to cower and wait)

    Fight: Fight like your life depends on success (which it does)
    "If you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot."

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  9. #68
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    My place of work requires mandatory "Active Shooter" training yearly. The training is conducted in a very large conference room with about 80+ people in attendance. If an active shooter(s) wanted to pick a time and place to kill with maximum effect, I would think he/she/they just might choose that meeting. And to top it off, there are two exits, no where to hide, and just fists to attack with. We have a no weapons, zero tolerance policy so I am pretty sure everyone will be unarmed but the AS. My suggestion in the meeting was to not make it too easy for a nut job by bunching up in a tight, defenseless group in meetings. Nobody took it seriously just like the training session.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeybee42 View Post
    True--I remember when my daughter was in high school (college now), she was a drum major and said that if it happened when she was in band class, she would prep with her mace (4' long stick with a hard metal ball on one end and a spike on the other for driving it into the ground). I didn't relish the idea of my daughter potentially going up against someone with a gun with nothing more than a big stick, but a big stick, an element of surprise, and determination just might be effective. (That metal ball was totally capable of doing major damage if swung with intent--I saw the bruises when she was learning to throw it and missed her catch.)
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  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    That is from a federal program and uses that terminology. Most likely your instructor was spouting everything he learned from a text on the same subject.

    I just went to ALICE Instructor training. It uses the same concepts in different ways but w/ different terminology w/o the political commentary, and is useful in schools, churches, businesses, etc.
    If he had stayed on script with the video, it would have been more palatable to me and others. What I heard, and others too, was his narrative of fear-mongering about evil black rifles supported by bad information that he pulled from liberal sources.
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  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullet183 View Post
    We talk about work place violence where I work. I just sit there and listen, 442 on my hip, and try not to laugh. Too old to run and waiting for my killer to find me is not very appealing. Plus, I don’t think I could live with myself if I ran away while a maniac was slaughtering good people. I guess I’m old fashioned but these shootings piss me off. I don’t live in fear and I don’t fear death, I have faith. It’s the lack of faith in this country that will be our downfall.
    I think you’ve got the same mindset that I, and a whole bunch of people that served with have. I believe some people were put on this earth to be protectors, I believe they’re called the peacekeepers in the Bible, and that was my calling from an early age. I’m retired now, but my mindset hasn’t changed. I teach my kids what they need to do in situations like this, and my thirteen year old daughter laments the fact that she can’t at least carry a knife! My girl is tough, but she worries me because she has my attitude about things like this. Thankfully, I live less than a mile from her school, and I can get there in less than a minute. She has me on speed dial/text, so I may get there before local LE. I also have three neighbors that are LE, and they’ve all said the same thing: Make sure you’re easily identifiable as a good guy, and do what you think is best for your kid, and all the rest. I live just outside Ft Hood, and have dealt with this before (Hassan). Even having combat experienced soldiers gunned down unarmed hasn’t changed Department of Defense policy. I’m glad I’m retired as well.
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  13. #72
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    1EyeTanker, we definitely have the same mindset. I have three daughters, among other things I taught them all to drive a stick and made sure they all carried a knife in their purse. Stick em in the neck and drive their car home. All three have grown into strong independent women who are good people, wives, mothers, and friends...Iím very proud of them.

  14. #73
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    Any company that I have ever worked for I have always kept my mouth shut, and have always been armed and nobody has ever known. If ever there was an incident of an active shooter, and I was able to stop him it would be worth losing my job just to have a couple of co-workers thank me.
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  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    If you are allowed to legally carry and your employer or a business restricts you from doing so.
    They should be held civilly responsible. After a few are sued into oblivion, they might get the idea.
    I like the idea, but from where I'm sitting, I think there's some problems making it happen in the reality we live in. First, the state you live in would have to pass or modify their law to allow it to happen. In states where the Democrats control, it's not going to happen because they don't want people to have firearms in the first place. In states where Republicans control, it probably won't happen, as they are very business oriented and will, therefore, see it as the business owner's prerogative to set policy. Throw in that insurance companies have lots of money to lobby and it's a real uphill climb to get that law passed. Secondly, as another poster noted, almost all company heads consider the real threat of a work-place shooting occurring as coming from a current or former employee, not some random outsider. The disgruntled current or former employee, who was disciplined or fired, would lead their candidates as the most likely culprit, and they would be right.To get that company head to realize that a policy of allowing all employees to carry is actually something that might prevent that from happening (by making the disgruntled person rethink carrying out an attack at work) would be a major accomplishment. So, while I would like to see that kind of law in place, I don't think it is realistic to contemplate that it will happen.
    M1911A1 and rotorhead1026 like this.

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by spclopr8tr View Post
    While we all knew this training was pretty worthless, it did convince me there wasn't a lot of safety in numbers considering the pool of uninformed, defenseless targets, and I was determined to avoid bunching up in a room with a bunch of sheep. I always figured a room (office, bathroom, closet) full of people offered a lot better target set than looking under desks and out of the way pukas.
    I don't know how many people here in the forum have seen the video the NZ shooter posted but his video completely reinforces what you've said. For those that haven't, his video starts off with him shooting people at the doorway to the mosque, then a few down the hall that leads to the main worship room. One unarmed man tried to rush him as the shooter got to the main hall and was shot for his trouble. Inside the main hall, the people had broken up into two groups, with each group cowering at the opposite ends of the main hall. The gunman stood in the middle, firing back and forth into each group. It was sickening to watch innocent people getting slaughtered. The reality is that cowering with a group just gives the gunman a bigger target.
    M1911A1 and spclopr8tr like this.

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