Run, Hide, Fight - Page 6

Run, Hide, Fight

This is a discussion on Run, Hide, Fight within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We had that same run hide fight training. I worked in a government facility with armed gaurds, no outside firearms were allowed. After the video ...

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Thread: Run, Hide, Fight

  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array DownInTheDark's Avatar
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    We had that same run hide fight training. I worked in a government facility with armed gaurds, no outside firearms were allowed. After the video the instructor asked my co-worker Al what he would do in an active shooter situation.

    His response, "I would go to Rick's truck. He's got a bunch of guns in it."

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownInTheDark View Post
    We had that same run hide fight training. I worked in a government facility with armed gaurds, no outside firearms were allowed.
    Yes, the same scenario as the Washington Navy Yard shooting.

    While on the first floor, the shooter moved around randomly before turning around and heading towards the front entrance. He shot and killed Richard Ridgell, the security officer stationed there, and took his Beretta 92FS 9mm pistol. Two police officers had asked Ridgell to remain at his post and try to stop the gunman if he attempted to leave the building.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washin...olice_response

    The building I worked in only had unarmed, contract security checking IDs. They likely would have been the first fatalities in an active shooter situation.
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnsoldier4fun View Post
    I don't know how many people here in the forum have seen the video the NZ shooter posted but his video completely reinforces what you've said. For those that haven't, his video starts off with him shooting people at the doorway to the mosque, then a few down the hall that leads to the main worship room. One unarmed man tried to rush him as the shooter got to the main hall and was shot for his trouble. Inside the main hall, the people had broken up into two groups, with each group cowering at the opposite ends of the main hall. The gunman stood in the middle, firing back and forth into each group. It was sickening to watch innocent people getting slaughtered. The reality is that cowering with a group just gives the gunman a bigger target.
    We were always taught, "Never stand up in a gunfight. Take cover!"

    Another instructor said, "I you stand up in a gunfight, the enemy will just shoot you down. Never be a target."
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    We were always taught, "Never stand up in a gunfight. Take cover!"

    Another instructor said, "I you stand up in a gunfight, the enemy will just shoot you down. Never be a target."
    The floor is not your friend either, bullets that ricochet tend to follow the floor and walls.
    graydude and CavemanBob like this.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    The floor is not your friend either, bullets that ricochet tend to follow the floor and walls.
    Naturally, as this video attests:



    But the video also attests to the difference between floors, walls, and cover. The latter is defined as a barrier between you and the shooter. Obviously, floors and walls offer no cover whatsoever.

    Lying prone, however, does minimize your frontal area while retaining your ability to shoot the target. Again, obviously, a barrier is better than lying prone. But lying prone remains better than standing tall -- even sideways -- if you're caught in a field or empty parking lot and someone's shooting at you. That's why firing prone remains a skill taught in all branches of the military, as well as in S.W.A.T. and many other law enforcement agencies. Furthermore, even in a fairly level field, you can often find areas which are more depressed than others. If your target is at some distance, the higher ground between you and the shooter is itself a barrier.

    The video also raised an issue of the danger of firing around the corner of a hallway. Hallways have walls, and the moment you peek around a corner, you're likely to catch a bullet as that's where most ricochets will be flying.

    There's another saying I heard from a rather brazen friend whose answer to most conflicts was to beat the other guy into submission. He once told me, "The best cover is a wall of lead." Given how slow we humans move and how fast he could fire, accurately, I'm inclined to believe his theory has a lot of merit.

    Steps of Conflict:

    • avoid
    • remove
    • de-escalate
    • cover
    • minimize
    • wall of lead
    Bad Bob, duane_wade and TimBob like this.
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Naturally, as this video attests:


    But the video also attests to the difference between floors, walls, and cover. The latter is defined as a barrier between you and the shooter. Obviously, floors and walls offer no cover whatsoever.

    Lying prone, however, does minimize your frontal area while retaining your ability to shoot the target. Again, obviously, a barrier is better than lying prone. But lying prone remains better than standing tall -- even sideways -- if you're caught in a field or empty parking lot and someone's shooting at you. That's why firing prone remains a skill taught in all branches of the military, as well as in S.W.A.T. and many other law enforcement agencies. Furthermore, even in a fairly level field, you can often find areas which are more depressed than others. If your target is at some distance, the higher ground between you and the shooter is itself a barrier.

    The video also raised an issue of the danger of firing around the corner of a hallway. Hallways have walls, and the moment you peek around a corner, you're likely to catch a bullet as that's where most ricochets will be flying.

    There's another saying I heard from a rather brazen friend whose answer to most conflicts was to beat the other guy into submission. He once told me, "The best cover is a wall of lead." Given how slow we humans move and how fast he could fire, accurately, I'm inclined to believe his theory has a lot of merit.

    Steps of Conflict:

    • avoid
    • remove
    • de-escalate
    • cover
    • minimize
    • wall of lead
    So is running in a serpentine manner to get to cover. Of course the COD generation is too round to really go prone. Laying prone and you become a stationary target. In the Army in the 70's we were taught to shoot prone from cover. In LE we were taught to use cover. I see a trend.
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  8. #82
    New Member Array garyhope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CavemanBob View Post
    One of the big defense contractors has an office building across the street from the one I work in. They've recently eliminated their armed security and now have only unarmed security walking around the campus. I have no idea what their reasoning was for elimination of armed security, perhaps it's just a Boulder thing? I wonder if everyone feels better now?
    Boulder, Colorado?

    I remember the day when Colorado used to be a real American Western state of real Americans like Texans, Montanans and Wyomingites and people from the Dakotas.

    Now Californians, New Yorker's, Washingtonians and Oregonians are moving into other states and ruining things there too.

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Laying prone and you become a stationary target.
    Laying prone in a depression in a field with the enemy 200 yards distant and you have cover.

    Laying prone in parking lot with bad guys approaching you from 70 feet away is just silly.

    As with pretty much everything, context is vital. Absolutes are often in error.

    Here's one absolute that's never in error: Always treat every firearm as if it's loaded.
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    I have only lost one fight in my life. I slipped running around a corner and he caught me.
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