Concealed Carry Mistake! - Page 4

Concealed Carry Mistake!

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry Mistake! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Greg Ellifritz, who has trained thousands of students on various advanced handgun skills, estimates that 75% of his students are bringing striker-fired handguns to his ...

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  1. #46
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    Greg Ellifritz, who has trained thousands of students on various advanced handgun skills, estimates that 75% of his students are bringing striker-fired handguns to his classes. If that translates to a similar percentage among all concealed carry practitioners, small wonder if a majority of negligent discharges actually occur with striker fired guns. Any other instructors out there keep track of what students carry?
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Greg Ellifritz, who has trained thousands of students on various advanced handgun skills, estimates that 75% of his students are bringing striker-fired handguns to his classes. If that translates to a similar percentage among all concealed carry practitioners, small wonder if a majority of negligent discharges actually occur with striker fired guns. Any other instructors out there keep track of what students carry?
    In 15 years of training others, a smattering of 1911's, quite a few DA/SA types like Sig's, but the vast majority have brought striker fired pistols. I think his 75% guess would be about right in my own courses too./

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    In 15 years of training others, a smattering of 1911's, quite a few DA/SA types like Sig's, but the vast majority have brought striker fired pistols. I think his 75% guess would be about right in my own courses too./
    I was thinking back to the Florida classes I attended with you, and was thinking about the same percentages.

    Similar numbers with the classes I attended at TDI.

    If striker-fireds are so dangerous, shouldn't there be a drive underway to ban them?
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  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I was thinking back to the Florida classes I attended with you, and was thinking about the same percentages.

    Similar numbers with the classes I attended at TDI.

    If striker-fireds are so dangerous, shouldn't there be a drive underway to ban them?
    I've had 2 ND's, neither was a striker fired handgun. Of course I've only carried striker fired guns regularly for the last 15 years. 1911's for 30+ years and a small amount of time with DA/SA sigs; squeeze cocked HK's; revos; etc

    One with a 1911, the other with a P7-m8. 500,000+ through 1911's in 50 years; nearly 200,000 through glocks [ the g17 trainer has 125K+ through it alone ]. Both were me shooting alone pushing the envelope to elevate the skills.
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  6. #50
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    If I might opine a bit. Blaming a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE on the hardware, rather than placing blame where it rightfully belongs, is exactly the same level of intelligence that anti-gun people place on guns instead of the criminals who wield them.

    I've known people who could break an anvil. It isn't beyond reason that they could find a way to make an unloaded gun fire by doing something that shouldn't be done with a firearm in the first place.

    I have a little challenge I have made in the past. It teaches a lesson every gun owner needs to learn. With no children or irresponsible people around, load a round in the chamber of the gun of your choice. If it has a safety, take it off (while pointed in a safe direction). Lay it, (again pointed in a safe direction), on a table. Go sit down in a comfortable chair with a nice glass of iced tea and wait one week. Keep a close eye on the gun to detect any malfeasance by said firearm. If the gun fails to discharge all by itself, you can now know beyond shadow of a doubt who is responsible for it going off, should it ever happen.

    All this chatter about revolvers, hammer fired, strikers, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, and which is safer, overlooks the common denominator between all guns. The human behind the wheel.

    Why is it we can learn complex tasks like going to the moon, but find safe gun handling beyond the pale?
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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    If I might opine a bit. Blaming a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE on the hardware, rather than placing blame where it rightfully belongs, is exactly the same level of intelligence that anti-gun people place on guns instead of the criminals who wield them.

    I've known people who could break an anvil. It isn't beyond reason that they could find a way to make an unloaded gun fire by doing something that shouldn't be done with a firearm in the first place.

    I have a little challenge I have made in the past. It teaches a lesson every gun owner needs to learn. With no children or irresponsible people around, load a round in the chamber of the gun of your choice. If it has a safety, take it off (while pointed in a safe direction). Lay it, (again pointed in a safe direction), on a table. Go sit down in a comfortable chair with a nice glass of iced tea and wait one week. If the gun fails to discharge all by itself, you can now know beyond shadow of a doubt who is responsible for it going off.

    All this chatter about revolvers, hammer fired, strikers, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, and which is safer, overlooks the common denominator between all guns. The human behind the wheel.
    It is also indicative of one's level of expertise in safe gun handling. JMO, of course.
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    It is also indicative of one's level of expertise in safe gun handling. JMO, of course.
    We seem to attribute everything to what type of gun triggers the greatest risk of idiocy among inexperienced operators. My opinion is that amateurs are dangerous if given a loaded ice cream cone. I've always been of the opinion that the only truly safe way for an amateur to handle a gun is with it fully field stripped and missing some key pieces.

    And an assignment: If you have amateurs around you, train them properly.
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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I was thinking back to the Florida classes I attended with you, and was thinking about the same percentages.

    Similar numbers with the classes I attended at TDI.

    If striker-fireds are so dangerous, shouldn't there be a drive underway to ban them?
    While I predominantly carry 1911s or revolvers I do not consider striker fired more dangerous, as with any piece of equipment you need a good understanding of how to use it safely.
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  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    If I might opine a bit. Blaming a NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE on the hardware, rather than placing blame where it rightfully belongs, is exactly the same level of intelligence that anti-gun people place on guns instead of the criminals who wield them.

    I've known people who could break an anvil. It isn't beyond reason that they could find a way to make an unloaded gun fire by doing something that shouldn't be done with a firearm in the first place.

    I have a little challenge I have made in the past. It teaches a lesson every gun owner needs to learn. With no children or irresponsible people around, load a round in the chamber of the gun of your choice. If it has a safety, take it off (while pointed in a safe direction). Lay it, (again pointed in a safe direction), on a table. Go sit down in a comfortable chair with a nice glass of iced tea and wait one week. Keep a close eye on the gun to detect any malfeasance by said firearm. If the gun fails to discharge all by itself, you can now know beyond shadow of a doubt who is responsible for it going off, should it ever happen.

    All this chatter about revolvers, hammer fired, strikers, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, and which is safer, overlooks the common denominator between all guns. The human behind the wheel.

    Why is it we can learn complex tasks like going to the moon, but find safe gun handling beyond the pale?
    Simple answer is, astronauts are professional, the majority of carriers are novices at best. Astronauts have trained extensively, the majority of carriers have not
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Simple answer is, astronauts are professional, the majority of carriers are novices at best.
    I figure it might have something to do with the proliferation of cell phones.


    Edit - I've always been of the opinion that amateurs blame the hardware. Professionals always blame themselves. Yes? No?
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  12. #56
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    and this is why i switched to TDA

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    Dang I just bought a Glock 43x and am planning to AIWB carry it.............oh well I'm to old to be having kids anyway.
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them.....well, I have others.

  14. #58
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    and this is why i switched to TDA
    Because you can't seem to safely handle a striker fired pistol? Don't trust yourself not having an ND with a striker fired pistol?

  15. #59
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    I think striker fired guns do pose a greater chance of negligent discharge; because of the fire control system.

    The problem is, that striker fired guns and 1911ís are best suited for professionals, or those who receive professional training.

    And, the issues arise when those who donít, buy one and try to use it without understanding the precautions that must be adhered to at all times.

    A greenhorn attempting to reholster a revolver, has a lot more leeway than one who is reholstering a Glock if something is against the trigger.
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    It remains imperative to understand all the capabilities and limitations of any system one deals with and to operate within those parameters. When those are ignored, bad things can and do happen.

    RE: this current instance, we just have no information to go on. We don't know if this person was even using a holster or where in the mall the incident occurred; Bathroom? For us, it's all conjecture.
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