On My Way To The Mall... - Page 8

On My Way To The Mall...

This is a discussion on On My Way To The Mall... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is also the reason I can't fully agree with the "shot placement is everything" crowd. Sure, shot placement is important but that shot also ...

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  1. #106
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    This is also the reason I can't fully agree with the "shot placement is everything" crowd. Sure, shot placement is important but that shot also needs to accomplish some damage to stop a threat.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  2. #107
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    what I'm not going to do is grab a little pocket pistol just slip it in my pocket because I'm only going to get a gallon of milk.


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    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB53 View Post
    nice thing about cold weather arriving is the extra layer that's not only good for keeping warm but works well to conceal a full sized rig.
    Yep will need that full size rig to get through multiple layers of winter clothing.
    I saw a report many years ago how a thermal shirt, flannel shirt, sweater and a winter coat can stop penetration.

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  5. #109
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavygravy View Post
    "Ask yourself: if you KNEW you were going to actually need a gun before leaving the house, would it be a .380? If the answer is no, then either carry a real gun or stay home."

    Sigh. We're gonna do this all again, eh?
    From Ellifritz -- https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power
    How about is the gun I'm carrying what I would prefer in hand (of the ones I own) if I had to defend myself? Location nor time of day are factored.
    If the gun being carried aint fairly close to what would be desired (of the options available) why not?
    No way I'd prefer a pocket gun in hand over a Glock 19/23/30 if I had to defend myself and I carry accordingly.
    I prefer Glock 35 over the 23, but the 23 is (usually) more tolerable when walking the dog(s) couple miles. Same bullets either way.
    If I KNEW I'd need a gun I wouldn't go.
    Carry "just in case" ... just in case somebody(s) tries to kill me; I'm not willing to bet my life on a pocket gun, its easy (for me) to carry something "decent" (Glock 19/23)

    Naive as it may be, I'm skeptical of 32 acp having better incapacitation than 9mm/40/45.
    I'm going to resist (won't be hard) betting my life on a P32 (32 acp) and stick with at least my Glock 23.
    If multiple 180 gr. 40 HST fails to stop an attacker my last thought will be, I should have carried a 32 ....
    SpringerXD likes this.
    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  6. #110
    VIP Member Array Cornhusker95's Avatar
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    I see all points of view here...It all boils down to each persons view...Some see it just like me and some don't.
    Just as long as someone does not take offense to my choice and perceive me as bashing theirs.
    It does happen at times.
    Wavygravy likes this.

  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
    How about is the gun I'm carrying what I would prefer in hand (of the ones I own) if I had to defend myself? Location nor time of day are factored.
    If the gun being carried aint fairly close to what would be desired (of the options available) why not?
    No way I'd prefer a pocket gun in hand over a Glock 19/23/30 if I had to defend myself and I carry accordingly.
    I prefer Glock 35 over the 23, but the 23 is (usually) more tolerable when walking the dog(s) couple miles. Same bullets either way.
    If I KNEW I'd need a gun I wouldn't go.
    Carry "just in case" ... just in case somebody(s) tries to kill me; I'm not willing to bet my life on a pocket gun, its easy (for me) to carry something "decent" (Glock 19/23)

    Naive as it may be, I'm skeptical of 32 acp having better incapacitation than 9mm/40/45.
    I'm going to resist (won't be hard) betting my life on a P32 (32 acp) and stick with at least my Glock 23.
    If multiple 180 gr. 40 HST fails to stop an attacker my last thought will be, I should have carried a 32 ....
    msgt/ret likes this.
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  8. #112
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Hmm.

    All this talk about the .32...

    I gotta start carrying that Beretta M81 I just picked up. Its a little laser, accurate as heck...nice and light, 13 rounds of .32, with a spare mag...

    I think I should be more than armed enough for the mall.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  9. #113
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    I don't want to offend anyone here either. I don't care what caliber anybody uses. I just don't see the point in the "mine's bigger than yours" arguments that occur here so frequently, maybe. As mentioned, I don't think caliber is the "be all end all' when it comes to handguns. Use whatever you can shoot well, whatever you can get on target quickly, know when to use it and when not to, and hope for the best -- that's all I've got. I'm no expert here, just an older guy who was in combat long ago and lives a quiet life nowadays.
    Cornhusker95 and Mike1956 like this.
    Charlie Co. 101st Assault Helicopter Battalion (Wings of the Eagle), 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile)
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  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead1026 View Post
    "Does this .380 make my butt look big?"
    No, all them damn Donuts you been eating make your butt look big

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    No, I dont.

    I know the odds of being involved in a mass shooting at a mall are infinitesimally low.

    Do the math.
    I see, never let data ruin long held dogma.

    Odds of a mall mass shooting are about as small as a mass shooting at a school or place of employment. Statistically being present during a mass shooting is infinitesmally low. Statistically, being present where any shooting occurs is infinitesimally low unless one likes to hang out in high crime areas. Some have less tolerance for risk than others and have to make their judgements as to whether the risk is high or low and whether to change their carry methods accordingly.
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton

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  12. #116
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spclopr8tr View Post
    I see, never let data ruin long held dogma.

    Odds of a mall mass shooting are about as small as a mass shooting at a school or place of employment. Statistically being present during a mass shooting is infinitesmally low. Statistically, being present where any shooting occurs is infinitesimally low unless one likes to hang out in high crime areas. Some have less tolerance for risk than others and have to make their judgements as to whether the risk is high or low and whether to change their carry methods accordingly.
    The data supports my conclusion, that the odds of being in a mass shooting at a mall (or anywhere) are infinitesimally low, hence the need to up gun exists only in ones head.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I would not say malls are low percentage. You may recall:
    • 2007, Westroads Mall, Omaha, NB 8 deaths
    • 2012, Clackamas Town Center, Porland OR, only 1 injured, because the shooter with an AR was stopped by a concealed carrier
    • 2014, Columbia Mall, Columbia, MD 3 deaths
    • 2016 Cascade Mall in Burlington, Wa 5 deaths
    • 2019 El Paso, TX 20 deaths
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    5 events, over 12 years, in how many hundreds (thousands?) of malls in the US?

    You might want to redo your math.
    The FBI keeps some of the best records of these events on the planet. Towards the bottom, under FBI Resources. All the data you need to verify events and casualties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    The data supports my conclusion, that the odds of being in a mass shooting at a mall (or anywhere) are infinitesimally low, hence the need to up gun exists only in ones head.
    Low, yes. Infinitesimally low, no

    From 20002013 there were 160 multiple victim/active shooter incidents. During the same period, there were approximately 100,000 single victim shootings. Given roughly 330 million people in the .S., you have a 0.00000373% probability of being involved in a multiple victim/active shooter incident during any given years. That's 1 in 26.8 million.

    Very low. Not "infinitesimal."
    Would you enjoy spending significant amounts of conducting research and conveying carefully worded discourse when others trample it under their feet, even to the point of deleting entire threads? Of course not. Me either. Matthew 7:6

  14. #118
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Sigh.

    Im done here...people are too lazy to do the math.
    JD and OD* like this.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  15. #119
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The FBI keeps some of the best records of these events on the planet. Towards the bottom, under FBI Resources. All the data you need to verify events and casualties.



    Low, yes. Infinitesimally low, no

    From 20002013 there were 160 multiple victim/active shooter incidents. During the same period, there were approximately 100,000 single victim shootings. Given roughly 330 million people in the .S., you have a 0.00000373% probability of being involved in a multiple victim/active shooter incident during any given years. That's 1 in 26.8 million.

    Very low. Not "infinitesimal."
    0.00000373%


    Definition of*infinitesimal

    *(Entry 1 of 2)

    1:*immeasurably or incalculably smallan*infinitesimal*difference

    2:*taking on values arbitrarily close to but greater than zero


    Pretty sure that fits the definition.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Those "expert" recommendations are from people who operate under the assumptiion that their audience is so unskilled, untrained and unprepared that "minimums" are even necessary.

    I've shown up at advanced handgun classes equipped "only" with 6 or 7+1 single stack Shields. The expert instructors' initial skepticism at my gear choices seemed to disappear after the first few mags are sent downrange.

    IMO, it is usually the Indian, and seldom the arrow.

    There's something that I'm trying to communicate here and I don't think I'm doing it right so let me say it this way.

    Taking caliber completely out of the question.

    You have two guns, an M&P Shield and an M&P C, both first generation, both the same caliber and you're not in a state that restricts capacity.

    If you can conceal the C why would you choose the Shield?


    My point is I don't have a "I'm just going to the store for milk" gun. I only have 2 guns in my "Carry Rotation" Glock 26 or Glock 19 and my only consideration when deciding which to carry is concealment, if I can conceal the 19 that's what I carry, if not the 26.

    If I didn't feel that a given gun of mine was adequate to defend myself in any given situation I'm likely to find myself in I wouldn't carry it anywhere.

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