Magazine Capacity Limits While Traveling Through States - Page 2

Magazine Capacity Limits While Traveling Through States

This is a discussion on Magazine Capacity Limits While Traveling Through States within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I usually carry either a 1911 or a revolver in different states....

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Thread: Magazine Capacity Limits While Traveling Through States

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    I usually carry either a 1911 or a revolver in different states.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskys2 View Post
    Or maybe a good ol' Revolver?
    I think there is a lot to be said for that. That's what I do. Because if the cops in another state want to check your guns, they will want to look at every darn mag. If they see a revolver, it will be like, "OK, fine."
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    I just don't travel to or through those States anymore.

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Keep in mind also that in those 10 round mag states, just having a higher cap mag, even if it is unloaded, can be just as illegal as having a loaded one. So if you are taking a trip that goes through a 10 round mag state, you are going to need to be 10 rounders all the way.
    I'm not arguing this but would like sources. Because if this is true it places an unnecessary burden on those traveling, such as moving household goods, including gun collections, through a state in the most expedient route possible.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldIthink View Post
    I'm not arguing this but would like sources. Because if this is true it places an unnecessary burden on those traveling, such as moving household goods, including gun collections, through a state in the most expedient route possible.
    Even though they are anti-gunners, The Giffords Law Center site has the best matrix I have seen and they have links to the actual statutes. It is about halfway down the page at the link. You can skip all the anti-gun propaganda before the matrix. As you can see, some states with mag limits allow possession, others don't. I would check the actual state statutes of states you are going to be traveling through, though. This stuff changes all the time.

    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-l...ity-magazines/
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldIthink View Post
    I'm not arguing this but would like sources. Because if this is true it places an unnecessary burden on those traveling, such as moving household goods, including gun collections, through a state in the most expedient route possible.
    Without looking it up, isn't it true that if the gun related item is legal in your end destination state that you can drive it there through gun-unfriendly states as long as you remain on the national interstate highways without deviation from those highways? I think that's true for guns and probably true for mags, maybe even true for hollow points passing through NJ. Now I agree that the most conservative strategy is to take a 10 round mag gun like G30/G27/G26 or a revolver (or two of these for a NY reload). Just move up in caliber as you move down in round count to keep the firepower up.

    The interstate strategy wouldn't work for visiting someone in for example NJ, as you'd have to leave the interstate.

    Anyone have experiences driving the interstate through anti-gun states with items illegal in those respective states?

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsI View Post
    Without looking it up, isn't it true that if the gun related item is legal in your end destination state that you can drive it there through gun-unfriendly states as long as you remain on the national interstate highways without deviation from those highways? I think that's true for guns and probably true for mags, maybe even true for hollow points passing through NJ. Now I agree that the most conservative strategy is to take a 10 round mag gun like G30/G27/G26 or a revolver (or two of these for a NY reload). Just move up in caliber as you move down in round count to keep the firepower up.

    The interstate strategy wouldn't work for visiting someone in for example NJ, as you'd have to leave the interstate.

    Anyone have experiences driving the interstate through anti-gun states with items illegal in those respective states?
    I have experience doing it and I have always been in compliance with the law as I understood it, but then I have never been caught with guns in those states and had to test whether I was right or not. The truth is, most people transporting guns don't run up against the law on it. But from time to time some of them do. You could break down, you could have an accident, you could get pulled over for something, etc.

    The USCCA has a warning about this. Some states treat the federal FOPA transportation protections as an "affirmative defense." That means that if you get caught with a prohibited firearm or accessory in the state, you will get arrested and you will then have to claim FOPA protection in court and prove you were in compliance with the law. NY and NJ are two such states. To my way of thinking, getting arrested and having to go through trial to maybe get my FOPA protection is not acceptable.

    Personally, I think it is playing with fire to do anything but be 100% in compliance with a state's laws when there are criminal penalties involved and even then I think you are taking your chances in some states. A thought is sending hi-cap mags by mail. That is not prohibited and once something is in the care of the Postal Service, it is not subject to state laws until it is delivered. You can't mail anything that is illegal in a state to that state, though.
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  10. #24
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    So then what is implied is that in order to move a gun collection from point A to point B if there happens to be a mag limit law in one or more of the states being traveled through the owner of that gun collection, no matter the size, would be better off legally sending them all through a common carrier at a substantial burden to their wallet as this would require paying at least one FFl holder to receive the guns and do the transfer as well as probably needing an FFL to send the guns to the destination FFL holder.

    This certainly doesn't sound right. So I checked and came up with this >>
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...ousehold-goods

    May a person who is relocating out-of-state move firearms with other household goods?

    Yes. A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport or ship the firearm interstate when changing their state of residence. If using a moving company, you must notify the mover that firearms are being transported.

    Certain NFA firearms must have prior approval from ATF before such firearms may be moved interstate. You should also check state and local laws where relocating to ensure that movement of firearms into the new state does not violate any state law or local ordinance.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(4) and 922(e); 27 CFR 478.28 and 478.31]
    Last Reviewed January 30, 2020


    So what this tells me is that moving any firearms across state lines is legal just so long as they are legal in the destination state. Nevertheless, this only covers moving with household goods and doesn't clarify simple travel for entertainment.


    So that concern brought me to this >>

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-c...senate-bill/49 (The McClure-Volkmer Act of 1986) Specifically; Permits the interstate transportation of unloaded firearms by any person not prohibited by Federal law from such transportation regardless of any State law or regulation.

    The gist of this is the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA). It protects the interstate transport of firearms. However, everything I found coincides with the general consensus that it's best to not linger in unfriendly anti-gun states or that when in those states one needs to obey all the laws of those states. If you are CC'ing as per your home state law but the anti-CCW with no reciprocity state allows open carry, then by all means move your pistol into compliance with the law. This is a personal judgement call however, and it would likely be best to consult a legal entity to determine if this is the best course.

    As for the magazine restrictions, if one determines that the aforementioned act also protects the magazines required for use in those guns being transported then by all means test the law! Otherwise, all I could find was - DON'T bring a mag into a state that deems that those extra two bullets (or whatever) will cause the demise of mankind as we know it!

    It appears that illegal is illegal no matter where you are from (unless FOPA has some say in it). Personally, I would simply pack them in a locked case and make them as inaccessible as possible, and try to not get into any accidents while I am there. If there's no reasonable cause to search your car, then there's no reason for the cops to know you have illegal magazines on board. But that's personal choice.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I have experience doing it and I have always been in compliance with the law as I understood it, but then I have never been caught with guns in those states and had to test whether I was right or not. The truth is, most people transporting guns don't run up against the law on it. But from time to time some of them do. You could break down, you could have an accident, you could get pulled over for something, etc.

    The USCCA has a warning about this. Some states treat the federal FOPA transportation protections as an "affirmative defense." That means that if you get caught with a prohibited firearm or accessory in the state, you will get arrested and you will then have to claim FOPA protection in court and prove you were in compliance with the law. NY and NJ are two such states. To my way of thinking, getting arrested and having to go through trial to maybe get my FOPA protection is not acceptable.

    Personally, I think it is playing with fire to do anything but be 100% in compliance with a state's laws when there are criminal penalties involved and even then I think you are taking your chances in some states. A thought is sending hi-cap mags by mail. That is not prohibited and once something is in the care of the Postal Service, it is not subject to state laws until it is delivered. You can't mail anything that is illegal in a state to that state, though.
    I believe you are doing it the best way attainable by virtue of the convoluted nature of each states set of laws. However, the bigger picture is not as nice. The big picture shows legal gun owners kowtowing to the overlords in each state, some states more than others. The BoR specifically says we should not have to do this! Inalienable rights and all that rot. A civil society is not what modern politicians are after. They want absolute chaos.

    It might sound farfetched but for what other reason would they NOT advance federal oversight to protect every article in the BoR? Smaller government? The governments job is to protect the nation, not the individual. The state governments job is to protect the state, not the individual. The municipality's job is to protect the municipality, not the individual. But since that has mutated over the years to what we have now there is no other recourse than to promote chaos. There are two possible reason's, the first is that strategically the distracted person is easier to control. Keep them wondering. Isn't that what we are doing here? Nobody has a well defined solid answer and finding one almost requires an advanced law degree, yet the common citizen is held liable for not knowing the law, since ignorance of the law has long been held as being indefensible.

    And secondly there are so many addendum's and roll call votes to add and subtract language from any given bill it's damn near impossible to know what signed-into-law law means even when it can be found. This results in chaos. An infamous bitter women in the house once flatly stated we'll have to pass the bill to find out what's in it. Then when that famously idiotic bill passed it turned out to so long and convoluted that even the ones that wrote it could decipher it. it took the SCOTUS to help sort it out. Utter chaos.

    I'm moving off subject but it all intertwines at some level. It may not be a master plan but it's happening right now nonetheless.
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  12. #26
    Member Array APX-9M's Avatar
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    I know it's different in each state, but generally speaking, what type of charges are being handed out for being in procession of >10 round mags?

  13. #27
    Ex Member Array oldIthink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by APX-9M View Post
    I know it's different in each state, but generally speaking, what type of charges are being handed out for being in procession of >10 round mags?
    Nothing like that came up in my little amount of research. That would depend on each state and what is the specific law. Sometimes laws are enacted that don't specify a required punishment. I can only guess that in that circumstance it is determined case by case with all circumstances considered by the court (prior offenses, severity of the charges, etc.). I'm just a lowly bus driver that happens to have just gotten a Master degree so I still like doing legal research.

  14. #28
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldIthink View Post
    Nothing like that came up in my little amount of research. That would depend on each state and what is the specific law. Sometimes laws are enacted that don't specify a required punishment. I can only guess that in that circumstance it is determined case by case with all circumstances considered by the court (prior offenses, severity of the charges, etc.). I'm just a lowly bus driver that happens to have just gotten a Master degree so I still like doing legal research.
    If it's a civil fine or a low level misdemeanor, I'd personally would probably take my chances. Changes are no one would know unless you found a way to tell them directly or indirectly... Now if jail time or a felony is involved, that's a completely different story.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallsrider View Post
    I could be wrong (I haven't checked), but I would think any state with mag limits probably doesn't have reciprocity with other states. There may be an exception or two.
    That's a good point, but if you are passing through a non-reciprocity state and have to lock your gun up unloaded in the trunk, it still can't have more than a 10 round mag in it. I used to have to drive from VA to PA on business, which means I had to transit MD for 30 minutes. I would stop at the last stop before MD and lock up my gun and then stop at the first stop in PA and get it back out. So I kept up on their laws. BTW, IL, where I have a non-res permit, and also NY and OH all have some cities with different mag limits than the state.
    I also have an IL non-res permit. My sister lives in Crooked County. Part of the county is 15 round, other parts are 10 round. I carry three 10 rounds mags in lieu of my two 15 round mags. I can load mags faster than the cop can read me my rights.
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