9mm lethality testing at distance (Sub 2000)

9mm lethality testing at distance (Sub 2000)

This is a discussion on 9mm lethality testing at distance (Sub 2000) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After a few other threads about the Kel Tec sub 2000 in DC. I ran across these on youtube. The summary (jump to about 11 ...

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Thread: 9mm lethality testing at distance (Sub 2000)

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    Distinguished Member Array viney266's Avatar
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    9mm lethality testing at distance (Sub 2000)

    After a few other threads about the Kel Tec sub 2000 in DC. I ran across these on youtube.

    The summary (jump to about 11 minutes). They are making iron sights hits at 440 yds. and they are showing serious penetration. The round is NOT used up at that distance. Yes, it is getting down on power (about 130 ft.lb) and he is using some serious dope to hit. However, it is what I have always said. NEVER underestimate a man who can shoot. Especially if you give him time to work.

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    Member Array snakyjake's Avatar
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    For civilian CQB and home defense where penetration isn't a priority, makes me wonder why anyone would consider 300BLK/5.56.
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    I always kind of wanted to dip my toe into the AR world but, can't help but, think a 9mm carbine would be a more practical weapon for me?
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    MJK
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    M1 carbine: 110 gr HP @ 1900+ fps

    Just sayin’...
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    For civilian CQB and home defense where penetration isn't a priority, makes me wonder why anyone would consider 300BLK/5.56.
    With what bullet? Match the ammo to the job. Light fast don't penetrate AS bad.
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    9mm lethality testing at distance (Sub 2000)
    I have said it before and will say it again. Unless you are hunting lethality is not you concern, how fast it stops an attack is.
    Check out the CR-12 - wilkinsontactical.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    For civilian CQB and home defense where penetration isn't a priority, makes me wonder why anyone would consider 300BLK/5.56.
    You should try shooting some 12 gauge slugs. Besides penetration IS a priority in stopping the threat.

    @viney266 Have you ever read the label on a box of 22LR? I have personally shot some out in the flat desert. They do indeed fly one mile (1,760 yards) when the barrel is elevated to allow the maximum range shot. And, as many incidents witness, they are capable of killing an animal like a cow at that range.

    But again, the issue is not how far a cartridge is lethal, or how far it will shoot, but how quickly it stops a threat. Whole 'nother ballgame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    For civilian CQB and home defense where penetration isn't a priority, makes me wonder why anyone would consider 300BLK/5.56.
    Because .458 Socom was out of stock...
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Because .458 Socom was out of stock...
    ^^^ Nah, cause it's so bloody pricey! I want to build a 458, but ouch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    I have said it before and will say it again. Unless you are hunting lethality is not you concern, how fast it stops an attack is.
    ^^^ Absolutely true. However, FIRST you have to hit what you are aiming at...then the bullet still has to work (the point of this video)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJK View Post
    M1 carbine: 110 gr HP @ 1900+ fps

    Just sayin’...
    Or... 32 win special. 170 gr at 2300 fps. And it's in the coolest rifle of all. A lever action. If someone is approaching my house as a known threat from 440 yards, I can guarantee if they are out in the open, giving me room to work, the 32, or the 303 in the back room will make sure they don't make it to 435 yards. And if they do make it the next 5 yards, they will have a bunch of extra holes in them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Workaholic View Post
    Or... 32 win special. 170 gr at 2300 fps. And it's in the coolest rifle of all. A lever action. If someone is approaching my house as a known threat from 440 yards, I can guarantee if they are out in the open, giving me room to work, the 32, or the 303 in the back room will make sure they don't make it to 435 yards. And if they do make it the next 5 yards, they will have a bunch of extra holes in them.
    I'm guessing you don't get a lot of UPS deliveries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    For civilian CQB and home defense where penetration isn't a priority, makes me wonder why anyone would consider 300BLK/5.56.
    I dunno, I'd guess a chitload more effectiveness in a similar sized package??

    Not to mention that with proper bullets a .223/5.56 has less chance of overpenetration when used for HD. Once you move to a short barrel (really suitable for HD) the .300ACC outperforms a .223/5.56.

    This is yet another one of those "yes a 9mm PCC can make hits at 440 yards and has ample penetration (FMJ, yes.... JHPs???), but is it the best tool for the job??" type questions.

    I've got a 9mm PCC; great gun, fantastic training tool, could easily be pressed into service for HD. Choose it over one of my .223/5.56 or my .300AAC for HD??? Not a chance in hell. Not wanting to get into a Lethality discussion with Bad Bob, but everything I've been able to research leads me to believe that the majority of folks shot by handguns survive. Those center-punched by rifle cartridges....not so much by a large margin. Now the intent is to stop a threat, not kill, but I think it's safe to infer that if a cartridge has a higher rate of lethality, then it should in theory have a higher chance of stopping a threat.

    A long barreled 9mm should be more effective than a short barreled 9mm (Carbine Vs. Pistol) based on increased MV. but IMHO neither comes close to a rifle.
    Last edited by Chuck R.; December 12th, 2018 at 11:11 AM.
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    I only trust a 9mm handgun or carbine for last resort bad-breath fighting distances. If I am shooting something at 400 to 500 yards, I want a 300 Winchester Magnum or better caliber rifle with a good bullet drop scope. A 300 Win-Mag still has over 1,500 foot/pounds of energy at 500 yards for a quick stop.
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    Distinguished Member Array viney266's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck R. View Post

    A long barreled 9mm should be more effective than a short barreled 9mm (Carbine Vs. Pistol) based on increased MV. but IMHO neither comes close to a rifle.

    ^^^100% AGREED. i WOULD always take the rifle if I had the chance, but if I had that little sub 2000 in the trunk or nothing else? It's nice to know it WILL reach that far. Honestly? I can't imagine a situation over 50 yards where I wouldn't just be driving away in the car at high speed. Just a nice exercise in "can it do that".
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    Proud NRA Benefactor member, My wife, daughter and son are all life members.
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