Federal 9mm 115gr JHP Train + Protect in Clear Ballistics Gel

Federal 9mm 115gr JHP Train + Protect in Clear Ballistics Gel

This is a discussion on Federal 9mm 115gr JHP Train + Protect in Clear Ballistics Gel within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Test Gun: Sig P229, Beretta Nano. Barrel length: 3.9, 3 inches. Ammunition: Federal 115gr JHP Train + Protect Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel. Distance: ...

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Thread: Federal 9mm 115gr JHP Train + Protect in Clear Ballistics Gel

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    Member Array 5pins's Avatar
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    Federal 9mm 115gr JHP Train + Protect in Clear Ballistics Gel



    Test Gun: Sig P229, Beretta Nano.
    Barrel length: 3.9, 3 inches.
    Ammunition: Federal 115gr JHP Train + Protect
    Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
    Distance: 10 feet.
    Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
    Five shot velocity average: 1102, 1056fps
    Gel Temperature 75 degrees.

    In the ninth load in the budget 9 series, we take a look at the Federal 115gr Train + Protect JHP. As near as I can tell this round uses the same 115 grain bullet as Federal 9pb, 9pble, and the XM9001. This load also comes in a little on the higher side of $17.99 for a 50 round box.



    From the Sig 229, I got an average velocity of 1102 with a high of 1110fps and a low of 1097fps.


    Ten yards off hand five shots with the Sig P229

    From the Beretta Nano, I got a five shot average velocity of 1056fps with high of 1070fps and a low of 1045fps.


    Ten yards off hand five shots with the Beretta Nano

    Using the Sig 229 the first round in the bare gel had a velocity of 1126fps and penetrated to 10.5 inches. The recovered diameter was .64 inches and the recovered weight of 114.8 grains. The second round had a velocity of 1111fps and penetrated to 11.5 inches, expanded to .62 inches and had a recovered weight of 115.4 grains.



    In the heavy clothed gel, the first round from the Sig had a velocity of 1124fps and penetrated to 16.5 inches. The recovered diameter was .54 inches and it had a recovered weight of 115.0 grains. The second bullet's velocity was 1134fps and penetrated to 18 inches. The recovered diameter was .40 inches and the weight was 115.3 grains.



    Shooting the Nano in the bare gel the first round had a velocity 1075fps and penetrated to 16 inches. The bullet had a recovered diameter of .41 inches and weighted 114.8 grains. The second round also had a velocity of 1075fps and penetrated to 11.75 inches. The recovered diameter was .59 inches and the recovered weight was 115.2 grains.


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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Thanks for the report. Good information.

    Just a thought for you. People associate clear gel with ordinance gel and assume they are the same. They are not. The pinkish brown (not clear) ordinance gel is made from ground up pig flesh. The clear variety is not the same composition. The ordinance gel is more expensive and more difficult to handle. They react differently. Just something you might find interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Thanks for the report. Good information.

    Just a thought for you. People associate clear gel with ordinance gel and assume they are the same. They are not. The pinkish brown (not clear) ordinance gel is made from ground up pig flesh. The clear variety is not the same composition. The ordinance gel is more expensive and more difficult to handle. They react differently. Just something you might find interesting.
    You are correct. For instance, the clear gel has a lot of bounce back that I don’t see in the ordinance gel.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Still performing as reliably as it did thirty years ago. If it ain't broke......
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Still performing as reliably as it did thirty years ago. If it ain't broke......
    It seems even the ammo companies are figuring out that the old school bullets work about as well as the new magic bullets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Still performing as reliably as it did thirty years ago. If it ain't broke......
    That's not what I see. I see a Nano (short barrel) not providing enough velocity to reliably expand the JHP. I also see that denim defeats the expansion of the cheap stuff. HST and Gold Dot (among others) are more tolerant of low velocity and clothing that most defensive targets wear.

    I see minimal penetration when expansion is maximized (no barrier). I see adequate penetration with barriers, but that is a result of minimal expansion.

    Not everyone can rely on a @Bad Bob to back them up with bullets that reliably expand AND reliably penetrate the target.
    Last edited by OD*; May 22nd, 2019 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Repair MENTION link
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    Senior Member Array Gunnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    It seems even the ammo companies are figuring out that the old school bullets work about as well as the new magic bullets.
    Add about 150-200FPS and that bullet really shines nicely.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post

    That's not what I see. I see a Nano (short barrel) not providing enough velocity to reliably expand the JHP. I also see that denim defeats the expansion of the cheap stuff. HST and Gold Dot (among others) are more tolerant of low velocity and clothing that most defensive targets wear.

    I see minimal penetration when expansion is maximized (no barrier). I see adequate penetration with barriers, but that is a result of minimal expansion.

    Not everyone can rely on a @BADBOB to back them up with bullets that reliably expand AND reliably penetrate the target.
    So for those that carry short barreled pistols maybe they should go ahead and buy the premium priced stuff. But this thirty year old design works just fine out of what I carry.

    These bullets were designed to be fired primarily from full sized (5 inch) duty guns and to also perform from the then compact (4 inch) pistols. They still reliably perform as designed. Just as the 147 grain Hydroshok does great out of submachine guns and carbines but sucks out of pistols. If one fails to use the platform the cartridge was optimized for you will of course get less than optimum performance. While bullets may have evolved in the last thirty years humans have not. What dropped bad guys then still drops them now. And it does it for half the cost of HST.
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    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So for those that carry short barreled pistols maybe they should go ahead and buy the premium priced stuff. But this thirty year old design works just fine out of what I carry.
    Unless your target is protected by clothes.
    As for price, I don't use bullets to defend myself very often. I can afford $30 a year for 50 rounds.

    I've learned to pay for quality tools.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    That's not what I see. I see a Nano (short barrel) not providing enough velocity to reliably expand the JHP. I also see that denim defeats the expansion of the cheap stuff. HST and Gold Dot (among others) are more tolerant of low velocity and clothing that most defensive targets wear.

    I see minimal penetration when expansion is maximized (no barrier). I see adequate penetration with barriers, but that is a result of minimal expansion.

    Not everyone can rely on a @BADBOB to back them up with bullets that reliably expand AND reliably penetrate the target.
    You and Gunnie hit on exactly what I was alluding to. The plain Jane bullets of 30 years ago worked fine if you gave them the energy. I was shooting my 6" 686 the other day, 125 grain Winchester JHP's probably doing 1500-1550 fps from the 6" tube. One of the bullets was laying near the surface of the damp clay berm. It had expanded to about .710 and weighed in @ 118.5 grains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So for those that carry short barreled pistols maybe they should go ahead and buy the premium priced stuff. But this thirty year old design works just fine out of what I carry.

    These bullets were designed to be fired primarily from full sized (5 inch) duty guns and to also perform from the then compact (4 inch) pistols. They still reliably perform as designed. Just as the 147 grain Hydroshok does great out of submachine guns and carbines but sucks out of pistols. If one fails to use the platform the cartridge was optimized for you will of course get less than optimum performance. While bullets may have evolved in the last thirty years humans have not. What dropped bad guys then still drops them now. And it does it for half the cost of HST.
    For a Nano or other micro 9 I would probably use something like the 9BPLE load.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnie View Post
    Add about 150-200FPS and that bullet really shines nicely.
    Yes indeed.

    Then you'd have the old 9BPLE "Hi-Shok" another excellent loading.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-115-...ense-50-rounds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post

    Unless your target is protected by clothes.
    As for price, I don't use bullets to defend myself very often. I can afford $30 a year for 50 rounds.

    I've learned to pay for quality tools.
    People were wearing clothes thirty years ago and the 9BP and 9BPLE were getting the job done just fine.
    As to the price issue, I take it you don't practice with your carry ammo. For those of us that do the difference between twenty seven or thirty cents per round and sixty seven cents to one dollar per round adds up. It allows for more ammo to practice with or more training, or even a new pistol each year.
    I also appreciate quality tools but I learned long ago a Craftsman screw driver works just as well as the ones the Snap On guy sold me and has the same warranty at one quarter the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post

    For a Nano or other micro 9 I would probably use something like the 9BPLE load.

    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnie View Post
    Add about 150-200FPS and that bullet really shines nicely.
    Yes indeed. <img src="https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/images/smilies/vol_1/hand10.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Hand10" class="inlineimg" />

    Then you'd have the old 9BPLE "Hi-Shok" another excellent loading.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-115-...ense-50-rounds
    Sgammo has the 9BP at $13.95 for a box of 50. The 9BPLE is out of stock now but runs $14.95 for 50.

    People have to understand that they are never going to get duty pistol performance out of a micro size pistol. There is a reason no military service or law enforcement agency issues micros as anything but a backup to a larger pistol with a longer barrel.

    The old 9BP and 9BPLE aren't perfect. I don't think anyone has ever said they were. They do have a proven track record on the street. They are inexpensive enough that anyone can afford them. They are inexpensive enough to train and practice with.
    For me the positives vastly outweigh the negatives. Bang for the buck I don't think you can beat them.
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    Senior Member Array Gunnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    People were wearing clothes thirty years ago and the 9BP and 9BPLE were getting the job done just fine.
    As to the price issue, I take it you don't practice with your carry ammo. For those of us that do the difference between twenty seven or thirty cents per round and sixty seven cents to one dollar per round adds up. It allows for more ammo to practice with or more training, or even a new pistol each year.
    I also appreciate quality tools but I learned long ago a Craftsman screw driver works just as well as the ones the Snap On guy sold me and has the same warranty at one quarter the price.





    Sgammo has the 9BP at $13.95 for a box of 50. The 9BPLE is out of stock now but runs $14.95 for 50.

    People have to understand that they are never going to get duty pistol performance out of a micro size pistol. There is a reason no military service or law enforcement agency issues micros as anything but a backup to a larger pistol with a longer barrel.

    The old 9BP and 9BPLE aren't perfect. I don't think anyone has ever said they were. They do have a proven track record on the street. They are inexpensive enough that anyone can afford them. They are inexpensive enough to train and practice with.
    For me the positives vastly outweigh the negatives. Bang for the buck I don't think you can beat them.
    Many of the 9mm aren’t good enough crowd tend to in my opinion look at ballistics for micros. From a service pistol or compact 4” a 9mm in the proper loading is excellent medicine. 9bple while not my first choice is good medicine. Speer offers the gold dot in the same specs adding those velocities to the bonded bullet for increased barrier penetration in my opinion makes for the perfect cartridge if you and the gun shoot it well. If a little less recoil is desired I step to the 124+p
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    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    People were wearing clothes thirty years ago and the 9BP and 9BPLE were getting the job done just fine.
    I don't think it did do a fine job. We have lots of failures of 9mm to perform in the 70's and 80's. Things were not great in the 9mm world back then.
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