When to Carry a .40 S&W over a 9mm? - Page 12

When to Carry a .40 S&W over a 9mm?

This is a discussion on When to Carry a .40 S&W over a 9mm? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well....there is this...sincere we’re comparing calibers........

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Thread: When to Carry a .40 S&W over a 9mm?

  1. #166
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    Well....there is this...sincere we’re comparing calibers.....

    When to Carry a .40 S&W over a 9mm?-13d22828-6cd7-4b0a-a991-e4d8b69e3c5f.jpeg
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  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    I have shot a Glock G20 with an Underwood 180 grain and a Glock G21 with a Winchester 230 grain PDX1 at the same time in each hand. It was hard to tell the difference in felt recoil.
    Charts of recoil comparisons....

    When to Carry a .40 S&W over a 9mm?-e6a438bc-6e1a-4569-b887-c35cb5e5e905.jpeg When to Carry a .40 S&W over a 9mm?-cf10d718-7bc6-4269-a84d-a4ab3e0acd1e.jpeg
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  3. #168
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadguy View Post
    You deerslayers do realize these results prove nothing without the deer wearing three layers of denim and a heavyweight hoody.
    The hide on a deer mimics light clothing. Also, it's alive with organs and bones like people do. A far better way of testing what a round does than using gel. It's the step to take after the gel testing. You could substitute wild pigs for deer. They are plentiful and can also be eaten. Mmm, bacon.

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  5. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    The hide on a deer mimics light clothing. Also, it's alive with organs and bones like people do. A far better way of testing what a round does than using gel. It's the step to take after the gel testing. You could substitute wild pigs for deer. They are plentiful and can also be eaten. Mmm, bacon.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    If my idea for ballistics test media was ever made legal, we wouldn't have to worry about gels, deer, pigs, water jugs, etc. Not only that, we could actually dress up the test subjects with 3 layers of denim and a heavyweight hoody.
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  6. #170
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Well, you could dress up a pig if you bought a domesticated one. People have done stranger things. I just like my method because it allows for critter control and gets meat to eat.

  7. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    Unimportant. Steel is not flesh and bone. Bad shot placement will cause all bullets to have minimal impact. I've been paying attention to what a bullet does after it hits the critters I shoot for years. Bullet construction matters. What that bullet was designed to do will determine what normally will happen when you shoot, and obviously hit, the appropriate target with.

    Small game rounds tend to not kill larger critters without great/near perfect shot placement. Large game bullets will go through and through on small targets.

    While I have not personally used a small round, like a .22 LR on larger game, the type of round I use to hunt with has to have certain characteristics to better kill the bigger cottontails around here should you not get them in the head. Squirrels don't require anything in particular. They are so small, you shoot them in the head or chest they just die.

    I can tell you that a very nice nosler hunting round designed for large game will not do much against a smaller critter if you don't hit solid bone going in. I know that from experience shooting a coyote with my deer hunting rifle. I was out trying to call wolves in during the now gone Wisconsin wolf hunt, so I had the tool for that task, not one for the smaller cousins.

    At this point in time caliber doesn't matter much for humans. Honestly, caliber no longer matters much for most of the whitetail deer species. Bullet construction has improved vastly since I was a teenager. We can do more with the calibers we have if we use the right ammunition for the job. Handgun ammunition has improved more than hunting rounds. Any caliber we choose, should we practice properly so we can hit dangerous people in the CNS, won't matter should we pick almost any self defense round.

    What matters is not the caliber being used, for the ballistics have become very close together for the most commonly used rounds, but our ability to hit the target where it counts. We need to carry what we are comfortable with.
    Great information, however, I think that you took my very simple statement and read way too much technicality into it!

    I'm all for shot placement; that's my thing, however, I am also for carrying my favorite round of choice-that being the .45. I'm quite comfortable with it as with my other calibers but I like and prefer the .45. I stand by what I said earlier that I love watching my .45's rock steel targets. I love it! Now, if others feel the 9mm or .40 is great for them or they feel that they are similar ballistically, kool! That doesn't affect my selection whatsoever!
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  8. #172
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    I’ve seen quality 9mm JHPs at $0.28 ea. I’ve never seen .40 or .45 anywhere close.

    https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...ood-price.html

    You can afford to train with the same ammo you carry with a 9mm. Not so much with other calibers. That’s a huge advantage, from a training and proof of reliability standpoint.

    And no, not everyone wants to get into reloading.

    I have no .40 and have no desire to add one. I have one .45 and likely won’t add any more. I plan on burning through my 9mm FMJ supply, and stocking up on the JHPs when they’re back on sale, and using them almost exclusively going forward.

    As far as the rest goes, I find it instructive that this officer didn’t “upgun” to a .45 Super, or a .50 AE, or a .44 Mag. Nor did he stick with a .40-something. Nope. He went with lots and lots of 9mm. Fascinating.

    https://www.policeone.com/police-her...BbLYpnqqHxwMq/


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    For what it's worth, Alaska is home to about 85-95 percent of America's Brown/Grizzly bear population, and they also contend with Polar bears. The Alaska state Troopers, which includes Wildlife Troopers, quit issuing 357mag revolvers, and started issuing 40cal pistols, sometime within the last 20-29 years. First it was the S&W 4006, now the g22. The 10mm Glock g20 are an option for some Troopers. Montana Hwy Patrol's standard issue is the Sig p229 in 357sig. Wyoming Hwy Patrol uses 40cal. Idaho State Police issue the Glock g21 in 45acp. The states of ID, MT, and WY account for the vast majority of Brown/Grizzlies outside of Alaska.

    I mention the above because shooters often say 9mm is "enough" against the average human predator, but when the topic switches to wildlife and four legged predators, many shooters are willing to consider other pistol rounds. When I'm in bear or Cat habitat, I want better than a 9mm.

  10. #174
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    I managed to read through all 12 pages. Saw a lot of valid points. The fact of the matter is, I'd rather carry it over a 9. 9mm has it's place. At the moment I don't have anything in 9mm. My thought is this, unless you are recoil sensitive, or have problems controlling a 40, why would you carry a 9mm for anything other than required for work, or a pocket gun? 115gr @1100 fps or 165gr @1100 fps. The 165gr will have more momentum. It will also dump more energy into whatever you shoot with it. Or, let's say you roll your own... my reloading reference ( which I need a new version, but this works for baseline) 9mm 124 gr 1248fps 40 155gr 1267fps. 31 extra grains of lead, with the same pressure, 33,300 cup. Gee, which to choose? Want a fast 115gr bullet? Yup, roll her own with 9mm, 1300 fps, give or take a few, for that magical 33k cup. Or go 38 acp, for 1436fps, with 23k cup.....

    Going straight off the numbers for common rounds, 40 trumps 9mm by more than enough for me to consider 9mm weaker, comparatively speaking. Each caliber out there has a use. If 9mm floats your boat for whatever reason, have at it. You won't catch me using a 9mm as a primary carry caliber. It may eventually make it into carry rotation for me, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to have it replace my 40.

    Want a real hoot? Look at the "advertised" velocity for general fmj (147gr 9mm, 180gr 40, 230gr 45) on the midway website. Most of them are running 900-1000fps. Bottom line, shoot what you're comfortable and accurate with.
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  11. #175
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    The hide on a deer mimics light clothing. Also, it's alive with organs and bones like people do. A far better way of testing what a round does than using gel. It's the step to take after the gel testing. You could substitute wild pigs for deer. They are plentiful and can also be eaten. Mmm, bacon.
    The problem with this is that the bullets you want for SD are not the bullets you want for hunting. And the bullets you want for hunting are not what you want for SD.

    For SD you want a bullet that causes maximum damage but penetrates deep enough to affect vital organs. The most effective examples are light and fast for caliber. For hunting you want a heavy solid bullet that penetrates deep without causing lots of tissue destruction. I know many people are lost on this as every hunter seems to now need the latest greatest belted magnum for shooting deer.

    Using that logic the light fast JHP's are what I favor for SD. !25 grn 357 magnum, 180 grn 44 magnum, 155 grn 40 S&W.
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  12. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Workaholic View Post
    I managed to read through all 12 pages. Saw a lot of valid points. The fact of the matter is, I'd rather carry it over a 9. 9mm has it's place. At the moment I don't have anything in 9mm. My thought is this, unless you are recoil sensitive, or have problems controlling a 40, why would you carry a 9mm for anything other than required for work, or a pocket gun? 115gr @1100 fps or 165gr @1100 fps. The 165gr will have more momentum. It will also dump more energy into whatever you shoot with it. Or, let's say you roll your own... my reloading reference ( which I need a new version, but this works for baseline) 9mm 124 gr 1248fps 40 155gr 1267fps. 31 extra grains of lead, with the same pressure, 33,300 cup. Gee, which to choose? Want a fast 115gr bullet? Yup, roll her own with 9mm, 1300 fps, give or take a few, for that magical 33k cup. Or go 38 acp, for 1436fps, with 23k cup.....

    Going straight off the numbers for common rounds, 40 trumps 9mm by more than enough for me to consider 9mm weaker, comparatively speaking. Each caliber out there has a use. If 9mm floats your boat for whatever reason, have at it. You won't catch me using a 9mm as a primary carry caliber. It may eventually make it into carry rotation for me, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to have it replace my 40.

    Want a real hoot? Look at the "advertised" velocity for general fmj (147gr 9mm, 180gr 40, 230gr 45) on the midway website. Most of them are running 900-1000fps. Bottom line, shoot what you're comfortable and accurate with.
    Don't forget the 135's.

    https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

    https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...18785725644857
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  13. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I’ve seen quality 9mm JHPs at $0.28 ea. I’ve never seen .40 or .45 anywhere close.

    https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...ood-price.html

    You can afford to train with the same ammo you carry with a 9mm. Not so much with other calibers. That’s a huge advantage, from a training and proof of reliability standpoint.

    And no, not everyone wants to get into reloading.

    I have no .40 and have no desire to add one. I have one .45 and likely won’t add any more. I plan on burning through my 9mm FMJ supply, and stocking up on the JHPs when they’re back on sale, and using them almost exclusively going forward.

    As far as the rest goes, I find it instructive that this officer didn’t “upgun” to a .45 Super, or a .50 AE, or a .44 Mag. Nor did he stick with a .40-something. Nope. He went with lots and lots of 9mm. Fascinating.

    https://www.policeone.com/police-her...BbLYpnqqHxwMq/


    Too many are looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.
    You can find all kinds of practice ammo for the 40 @ 28 cents a round, you do not need to train with premium hollow point ammo, even most federal agencies stopped doing that. Nut the bottom line is you just do not like the 40, and that is fine.

    Yup Tim is a great guy. He is the second inner city cop I know in the last decade that has figured out that the 45 ACP ain't all that compared to some of the more modern offerings. Personally I prefer 357 Sig over the 40 or the 9mm.

    https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index...tol-ammo-40-sw
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  14. #178
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    NEVER.. Same reason, almost all LEO agency's have gone from the 40 cal to the 9mm.

    For hiking, woods camping, hunting, better off going with a hunting caliber, like 357 mag 10mm or 44 mag.

    However, I have killed my fair share of wild boar with the 9mm and I suspect your new 40 cal would do the same.

  15. #179
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    Here’s my take as an LEO. I have the same calibers as you. 9mm for summer and .40 caliber for winter. Best scenario.
    One more step and it's on!

  16. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by dump1567 View Post
    In what scenario would I carry the .40 over a 9mm?

    Your thoughts?
    There is no scenario in which I would carry a 9mm over a .40 or .45. Go big or stay home.
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