Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic - Page 3

Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic

This is a discussion on Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by bullet183 I’m not recommending bird shot for Home defense but I would think that same load to the face would take the ...

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 60
Like Tree178Likes

Thread: Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Chuck808's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tampa Bay area, Florida
    Posts
    2,220
    Quote Originally Posted by bullet183 View Post
    I’m not recommending bird shot for Home defense but I would think that same load to the face would take the fight out of an attacker immediately? Pretty large pattern on dudes back, must have been a ways out.
    It might. But what would FOR SURE take the fight out of someone is a load of buckshot that crushes the skull, entirely separates the brain from the spine, and obliterates the brain stem. That will do the trick 101% of the time.

  2. #32
    VIP Member
    Array deadguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    2,892
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    You might think that, but you would be sorely mistaken. I've seen an attempted suicide with a shotgun loaded with birdshot under the chin. The fool walked out of the hospital several weeks later. Of course, he was missing most of his face, but otherwise he was fine.
    It's all about shot placement.
    OldChap likes this.
    May you be in Heaven before the Devil knows you're dead

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The BAD lands
    Posts
    11,984
    about 30 years ago a local thug was robbing a KFC. The manager was sick of being robbed, so he shot poor JR in the face and neck from about 20 feet with a 12 gauge loaded with #6 shot. I found the getaway car parked outside the ER with a bloody mask and jacket......


    I talked to the clown a few days later in jail with a big bandage over his shoulder/neck/face.

    It definitely made him rethink where he wanted to be at that moment.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #34
    Member Array bullet183's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Northern CA
    Posts
    208
    I wouldn’t expect it to kill an attacker, but at self defense range their lack of facial features and eyes would be quite a deterrent. As a side note my wife’s cousin was involved in an ND in a vehicle with a shotgun on a pheasant hunt and his buddy was DRT. I wouldn’t underestimate the damage any firearm can do, strange things happen. Lots of stories like Oldchaps, and lots of stories about people being killed by much less. Be safe.
    OldChap likes this.

  6. #35
    Member Array retired badge 1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado
    Posts
    453
    The OP's photo shows a shot pattern of at least 24" diameter, which would indicate that the shooter was a considerable distance away from the victim (probably 25 yards or more, depending on the shotgun and choke used). The wounds displayed are on the victim's upper left rear quadrant (shoulder, upper arm, torso areas), which indicates that the victim was facing generally away from the shooter. The number of individual pellet wounds indicates a load of bird shot, with each pellet having relatively low energy and generally not capable of penetrating in flesh or muscle more than an inch or so (especially if passing through heavy or multiple garments).

    Certainly painful, probably more so as the wounds become inflamed and bruising becomes more evident. Probably not an easy job to remove all of the pellets, but many (or most) might be left in place rather than subject the victim to surgical treatment and associated risks of infection.

    If the same shotgun and load were employed at closer range, like across a room in a house, the wounds would likely be within a pattern of 2 or 3 inches, and the mass of shot would have caused much greater tissue damage and penetrated much more deeply (round shot loses energy very quickly as it passes through the atmosphere).

    Accepting this one photo and report as indicative of birdshot loads being ineffective for defensive use may be a mistake. At common home defense ranges (a few feet to a very few yards inside a home) common shotgun loads can be devastating on human targets.

    I keep my Remington 870 (12 gauge, 21" barrel, IC choke) loaded with 2-3/4" field loads of 1-1/4 oz. BB-shot at home (my old standard goose loads before steel shot requirements). Roughly 90 pellets of about .18 caliber launched at about 1100 FPS. My testing shows that this load will not penetrate two layers of 1/2" drywall with sufficient energy remaining to punch holes in a plastic pop bottle, but I have used it with devastating effect on coyotes and badgers (in addition to dozens of Canada geese and Rio Grande turkeys). From one end of the house to the other end I doubt that an intruder would know the difference between these loads and buckshot or slugs, but my neighbors would be less likely to suffer any injury or damage.
    bullet183 likes this.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The BAD lands
    Posts
    11,984
    Quote Originally Posted by retired badge 1 View Post
    The OP's photo shows a shot pattern of at least 24" diameter, which would indicate that the shooter was a considerable distance away from the victim (probably 25 yards or more, depending on the shotgun and choke used). The wounds displayed are on the victim's upper left rear quadrant (shoulder, upper arm, torso areas), which indicates that the victim was facing generally away from the shooter. The number of individual pellet wounds indicates a load of bird shot, with each pellet having relatively low energy and generally not capable of penetrating in flesh or muscle more than an inch or so (especially if passing through heavy or multiple garments).

    Certainly painful, probably more so as the wounds become inflamed and bruising becomes more evident. Probably not an easy job to remove all of the pellets, but many (or most) might be left in place rather than subject the victim to surgical treatment and associated risks of infection.

    If the same shotgun and load were employed at closer range, like across a room in a house, the wounds would likely be within a pattern of 2 or 3 inches, and the mass of shot would have caused much greater tissue damage and penetrated much more deeply (round shot loses energy very quickly as it passes through the atmosphere).

    Accepting this one photo and report as indicative of birdshot loads being ineffective for defensive use may be a mistake. At common home defense ranges (a few feet to a very few yards inside a home) common shotgun loads can be devastating on human targets.

    I keep my Remington 870 (12 gauge, 21" barrel, IC choke) loaded with 2-3/4" field loads of 1-1/4 oz. BB-shot at home (my old standard goose loads before steel shot requirements). Roughly 90 pellets of about .18 caliber launched at about 1100 FPS. My testing shows that this load will not penetrate two layers of 1/2" drywall with sufficient energy remaining to punch holes in a plastic pop bottle, but I have used it with devastating effect on coyotes and badgers (in addition to dozens of Canada geese and Rio Grande turkeys). From one end of the house to the other end I doubt that an intruder would know the difference between these loads and buckshot or slugs, but my neighbors would be less likely to suffer any injury or damage.
    With all due respect, bird shot is for birds. Not to say that they do not cause wounds, but each pellet acts as an individual once fired, they may cause a nasty surface wound but they are unlikely to penetrate deep enough to stop an attacker in heavy clothes or a really determined attacker. I keep my shotgun loaded with 00 buck, I have seen the results of that too.
    msgt/ret, AzQkr, craze and 2 others like this.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The BAD lands
    Posts
    11,984
    Quote Originally Posted by bullet183 View Post
    I wouldn’t expect it to kill an attacker, but at self defense range their lack of facial features and eyes would be quite a deterrent. As a side note my wife’s cousin was involved in an ND in a vehicle with a shotgun on a pheasant hunt and his buddy was DRT. I wouldn’t underestimate the damage any firearm can do, strange things happen. Lots of stories like Oldchaps, and lots of stories about people being killed by much less. Be safe.
    And then come the accusations that you intended to maim someone.......
    SatCong, msgt/ret and bullet183 like this.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

  9. #38
    Member Array usmc0811's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    pa
    Posts
    496
    All it would take is for one of them pellets to hit his spine just right or enter his lung or heart and he's really in trouble fast.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NE, KS
    Posts
    2,860
    Quote Originally Posted by RedSafety View Post
    In the time it takes the brain to make the decision to shoot and actually pulling the trigger, the perp could turn around.
    This actually happened to a guy I worked with on the Providence RI PD. Justifiable shooting, perp had a weapon, but he turned just as the officer broke the shot. So the entrance wound was lower back. Luckily there were witnesses.
    homo homini lupus est

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array craze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,137
    Here's a pick of a squirrel I shot at about 15 yards, maybe a little less. It was a 1.25 ounce field load of #5 bird shot through an improved cylinder choke. A pretty stout field load. It was close enough the wad fell it in the same spot as the squirrel. If you look you can see the pink wad between the shotgun and the squirrel. As you can see it didn't disintegrate into a mist.

    It doesn't take very far to be at the point you're relying on individual pellets to carry energy into something vital. If it were a man at that distance you may be relying on his desire to be somewhere else, more than his inability to stay standing. Cut the distance in half and it's probably a much different story.

    If all I had on hand was a heavy field load to defend myself and family inside my home, I wouldn't feel defenseless. That said this same shot gun in my house isn't loaded with a squirrel and rabbit load.
    CDW4ME, Bad Bob, Chuck R. and 2 others like this.
    "Some people go to bed with Lucifer..........then cry, cry, cry when they don't greet the day with God."

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Guncentric
    Posts
    4,050
    Quote Originally Posted by craze View Post
    Here's a pick of a squirrel I shot
    Shot, yes.

    Not the euphemism "harvested" like it was a pumpkin that was planted.
    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,193
    What I see is that you missed with most of the BBs. Not being critical, just clarifying more about the image.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The BAD lands
    Posts
    11,984
    Quote Originally Posted by usmc0811 View Post
    All it would take is for one of them pellets to hit his spine just right or enter his lung or heart and he's really in trouble fast.
    Talk about Holy Grail shots.....
    Nmuskier and msgt/ret like this.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array craze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    What I see is that you missed with most of the BBs. Not being critical, just clarifying more about the image.
    Nothing to be critical of, everything worked as it should. That squirrel was dead before it hit the ground. The only way to put more pellets in that squirrel would have been to be closer or use a tighter choke. The fact that the pellets spread quickly to the point your relying on pellets to penetrate individually is the point I was trying to illustrate. If I needed to stop a man at that distance he certainly would have caught more pellets but I would still be relying on those pellets individually to reach something vital. 20 yards is about the max I'm comfortable with that gun, choke, ammo combo to reliably stop a squirrel.

    Shotgun ammo designed to kill dove,squirrels, rabbits n such while leaving them quite intact for consumption may not be the best man stopping ammo.
    "Some people go to bed with Lucifer..........then cry, cry, cry when they don't greet the day with God."

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,193
    Quote Originally Posted by craze View Post
    Shotgun ammo designed to kill dove,squirrels, rabbits n such while leaving them quite intact for consumption may not be the best man stopping ammo.
    I am not sure how much "design" went into the ammo to kill dove and small critters while leaving them intacts, but if arguing that route, I would say that it was designed to make sure that the hunter was able to hit a smaller, often moving target. Small, moving game happens to be one of the best applications of bird shot, however.

    It may not be the best manstopper at distance, no doubt, but at shorter ranges, bird shot creates absolutely nasty and large wounds.

    Buck and bird shot were utilized originally for the purposes of increasing hit probability when you look into the history of the loads. The design of the shot really hasn't undergone much in the way of improvement in the last hundred years save for improvement of manufacturing in higher volume and size consistency.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •