Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic - Page 4

Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic

This is a discussion on Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I hate forking out $$ for the ER or Urgent Care, but I would have gone if my wife unloaded on me like that....

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Thread: Here's what being shot with birdshot looks like--WARNING!!! Graphic

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array scottync's Avatar
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    I hate forking out $$ for the ER or Urgent Care, but I would have gone if my wife unloaded on me like that.

  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    I am not sure how much "design" went into the ammo to kill dove and small critters while leaving them intacts, but if arguing that route, I would say that it was designed to make sure that the hunter was able to hit a smaller, often moving target. Small, moving game happens to be one of the best applications of bird shot, however.

    It may not be the best manstopper at distance, no doubt, but at shorter ranges, bird shot creates absolutely nasty and large wounds.

    Buck and bird shot were utilized originally for the purposes of increasing hit probability when you look into the history of the loads. The design of the shot really hasn't undergone much in the way of improvement in the last hundred years save for improvement of manufacturing in higher volume and size consistency.
    You can absolutely say each load is designed for a certain size game. From #2 turkey to #9 skeet, high brass or low, the hunter chooses what effectively kills the game while not destroying the meat. I load #8 in my 1st barrel and #6 in my second. The second shot usually needs the extra mass to carry the energy at a longer range.

    Improvements include smokeless powder, plastic shells, flight control wads, sabots. Buckshot is intended to penetrate large game. Birdshot, of all makes, is designed for very thin skinned small game.
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  3. #48
    Member Array bullet183's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    And then come the accusations that you intended to maim someone.......
    Coming from a guy whoís avatar is a bloodthirsty killer. Lol
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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullet183 View Post
    Coming from a guy whoís avatar is a bloodthirsty killer. Lol
    Bad Bob, bloodthirsty killer?
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  6. #50
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullet183 View Post
    Coming from a guy whoís avatar is a bloodthirsty killer. Lol
    So is Elmer Fudd.
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    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  7. #51
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck808 View Post
    I took a shotgun course once. The instructor was a long time police officer and LEO forearm instructor. In the classroom portion when discussing ammo selection, he did a google search for something along the lines of photos of wounds of birdshot and buckshot on humans after shootings.

    He asked the class if we noticed anything about the dozens of different photos we saw of each. Some people pointed out things like noting the different spreads and pellet counts, but going back through them, he started taking a tally for the number of people who had been shot with each, and putting a tick in one of two columns, alive and dead. All the birdshot photos were like the one here, a person standing up or sitting down in a hospital at a crime scene, showing their wounds to the camera. The buckshot wounds were all photos taken of dead bodies, taken at the medical examiners office.
    Question, did the bird shot stop the threat? If stopping the threat is the objective, either will work. If its to kill, then only use buckshot.
    When seconds count, help is only 18+ minutes away!

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSafety View Post
    Question, did the bird shot stop the threat? If stopping the threat is the objective, either will work. If its to kill, then only use buckshot.
    No.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  9. #53
    Member Array MisterMills357's Avatar
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    I know a guy that was shot at close range with bird shot; and all it did was make a hole that eventually healed over, after some medical attention.
    It was to his shoulder and he showed me the spot, and he was pretty calm about it. It did not stop him, or knock him down. This is a strange world that we live in.
    Crabby Old Goat, that's me!

  10. #54
    Member Array easy10's Avatar
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    That lawyer hunting with Dick Cheney got it the face.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Chuck808's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSafety View Post
    Question, did the bird shot stop the threat? If stopping the threat is the objective, either will work. If its to kill, then only use buckshot.
    No, he said many of the photos were ones that his dept took after they tracked down the suspect and took them into custody either at an emergency room, or after a concerned citizen called the police about a person walking down the street with a shirt soaked in blood.

    He said he had seen effective stops with birdshot, but those were people getting shot point blank, within a foot or two of the muzzle, and the birdshot was a chunk of lead still on the wad that penetrated into the vitals like buckshot would have.

    That being said, there is a video somewhere online or someone being shot with birdshot virtually point blank and walking away. Someone brought a shotgun into a college or something and started shooting people and it did absolutely nothing to stop the target (just someone in the library).

    Birdshot would be painful, but pain is not an effective way to stop a threat. If thatís what youíre looking for, Iíd much rather rely on pepper spray, or even one of those pepper spray guns as if you hit them in the eyes, then will be temporarily disabled since they physically canít see.

    Edit: Hereís the video. It was at Georgia Pacific University, check around 0:50. He shoots her from roughly 8-9 feet. I have a bigger reaction when I stub my toe on a table in the middle of the night. She looked mildly inconvenienced, Iíd have to guess she was just stunned from the loud noise. She doesnít fall, she doesnít run away. She looks at him like ďdude ***?Ē and then walks away. If a shot from across the length of a dining room table point blank in center mass with birdshot wonít stop some college girl walking to class, Iíd advice you donít rely on it to stop a determined attacker. Iím very glad for her sake that birdshot is cheaper than buckshot, and the shooter was ignorant of ballistics. He probably saw a box that said 12ga when he went to his sporting goods store, and saw a box of 25 shells for $5 and another of 00 buck for $25 and just bought the cheap birdshot and that saved her life. If that was any buckshot or slug, she would have essentially no chance of surviving. Remember the ship yard shooting years ago? The guy snuck a shotgun in and went to town with buckshot. Out of the 15 people he shot, 12 died. He shot the first 12 victims with his shotgun, in a 100% lethality rate. He then ditched the shotgun and went with a handgun, all all 3 handgun victims survived.

    If youíre going to rely on a shotgun for defensive use, please use buckshot. I want you good guys to survive.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.c...14-attack/amp/
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  12. #56
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    I keep my shotty loaded with No#8 shot. Itís an all purpose gun for what ever I need to get rid of something around the property.
    At 10 yards it blows one big hole in paper with its full choke.

    Im good with using it for SD in a pinch.
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  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    Chuck, what you state does NOT equate to not stopping a threat. Stopping a threat means that either the perp is dead OR immobilized OR they are driven off. Your own description implies that they WERE driven off by being shot with bird shot. That counts as stopping a threat. Shooting an unsuspecting victim and shooting a perp intending on harming you are two different things, and reactions of one can not be transfered to the other. Many perps are driven off without being hit. Many are driven off with minimal armed resistance. Killing the perp is only one way of stopping the threat. Your definition seems to be limited only to killing the perp.
    When seconds count, help is only 18+ minutes away!

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck808 View Post
    No, he said many of the photos were ones that his dept took after they tracked down the suspect and took them into custody either at an emergency room, or after a concerned citizen called the police about a person walking down the street with a shirt soaked in blood.

    He said he had seen effective stops with birdshot, but those were people getting shot point blank, within a foot or two of the muzzle, and the birdshot was a chunk of lead still on the wad that penetrated into the vitals like buckshot would have.

    That being said, there is a video somewhere online or someone being shot with birdshot virtually point blank and walking away. Someone brought a shotgun into a college or something and started shooting people and it did absolutely nothing to stop the target (just someone in the library).

    Birdshot would be painful, but pain is not an effective way to stop a threat. If thatís what youíre looking for, Iíd much rather rely on pepper spray, or even one of those pepper spray guns as if you hit them in the eyes, then will be temporarily disabled since they physically canít see.

    Edit: Hereís the video. It was at Georgia Pacific University, check around 0:50. He shoots her from roughly 8-9 feet. I have a bigger reaction when I stub my toe on a table in the middle of the night. She looked mildly inconvenienced, Iíd have to guess she was just stunned from the loud noise. She doesnít fall, she doesnít run away. She looks at him like ďdude ***?Ē and then walks away. If a shot from across the length of a dining room table point blank in center mass with birdshot wonít stop some college girl walking to class, Iíd advice you donít rely on it to stop a determined attacker. Iím very glad for her sake that birdshot is cheaper than buckshot, and the shooter was ignorant of ballistics. He probably saw a box that said 12ga when he went to his sporting goods store, and saw a box of 25 shells for $5 and another of 00 buck for $25 and just bought the cheap birdshot and that saved her life. If that was any buckshot or slug, she would have essentially no chance of surviving. Remember the ship yard shooting years ago? The guy snuck a shotgun in and went to town with buckshot. Out of the 15 people he shot, 12 died. He shot the first 12 victims with his shotgun, in a 100% lethality rate. He then ditched the shotgun and went with a handgun, all all 3 handgun victims survived.

    If youíre going to rely on a shotgun for defensive use, please use buckshot. I want you good guys to survive.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.c...14-attack/amp/
    The student in question that was shot, with little more reaction than stubbing a toe, collapsed behind the stairway, just off camera. She didn't get very far. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ic-university/
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Chuck808's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    The student in question that was shot, with little more reaction than stubbing a toe, collapsed behind the stairway, just off camera. She didn't get very far. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ic-university/
    Sure, she collapsed later on, but in the video she literally gets shot point blank and then decides to check her cell phone before walking away from the shooter.

    This was about as optimal for a shooting (on the shooters behalf) as a target can be. Just a couple feet away, moving very slowly, and a well aimed shot to the upper chest. If those circumstances will not immediately physiologically stop a person, I couldnít imagine it being possible.

    I can understand someone worrying about the penetration of something like a slug or even 00 buck, depending on their situation. You could always run something like a #1 or #4 buckshot, maybe even a low recoil #4 buckshot. Those are still effective on targets since they can reach the vitals, but offer reduced penetration.

    Someone mentioned before that buckshot is only good if your intent is to kill. Not the case at all. Buckshot will STOP the target. Not through pain, but through either destruction of the central nervous system or immediate massive blood loss when a large artery or vein is destroyed. If the person expires, so be it. You cannot shoot to kill, you can shoot to stop. It just so happens that death is often the likely result of the mechanisms that quickly force a person to stop what they are doing.

    Either deadly force is justified, and you need to stop the person NOW, or it isnít, and you canít legally or morally pull the trigger. If lethal force is justified, the long term wellbeing of the attacker is the least of my concerns. Just remember, that while birdshot is almost certainly going to be non-lethal, there is no such thing as a non-lethal-force use of a firearm by a civilian.

  16. #60
    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Sure, she collapsed later on, but in the video she literally gets shot point blank and then decides to check her cell phone before walking away from the shooter.
    If you don't do CNS or locomotor damage, then a person can literally walk away

    This was about as optimal for a shooting (on the shooters behalf) as a target can be. Just a couple feet away, moving very slowly, and a well aimed shot to the upper chest. If those circumstances will not immediately physiologically stop a person, I couldnít imagine it being possible.
    That "well aimed shot" was from her left, but hit her on the upper right side of her chest, collapsing her right lung, hitting an artery in her right shoulder. You can see her touch the spot where shot. The shot nearly missed her. Well aimed, it was not. How the guy missed center mass from that closed is pretty darned amazing.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

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