Glaser Ammo Help needed - Page 2

Glaser Ammo Help needed

This is a discussion on Glaser Ammo Help needed within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Cuda66 Choosing a load based on one, single “what if” scenario just doesn’t seem wise to me...but that’s me, and you’re you. ...

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  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Choosing a load based on one, single “what if” scenario just doesn’t seem wise to me...but that’s me, and you’re you.

    FWIW, this Buffalo Bore WC's are what are loaded in my 3” 629 I keep handy. I don’t live in multi-unit housing, but still have to be mindful of Rule 4.
    If I could carry my firearm legally in CA, I would choose completely different ammo. In LA County I can carry my handgun in my car if it is in a lock case or storage compartment with the ammo in a separate compartment of the vehicle. Getting a CCW in LA County requires a near act of God and there is no such thing as open carry as I said. I have other firearms such as my .45ACP loaded with 230gr. Hydra-Shoks as well as others. I am looking at the ever increasing home invasion robberies and an easy carry gun/ammo solution for me. I'm 6'5" and 300lbs and wear loose clothing designed to easily hide a gun (from when I had a CCW in other states). That is why I am tailoring this to a specific need/scenario. I have other weapons that can address other scenarios much better.

    My nightstand gun is a 10 shot S&W 617-4 .22LR because at the distance I will be shooting I am deadly accurate with it as I shoot it so much and I will be shooting for the nose/eyes area. Currently, it is backed up by a Ruger SuperRedhawk loaded with Winchester 210 grain Silver tips sitting right next to my Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer III with D Duplek Monolit 32 Steel Slugs just in case someone is wearing body armor. So I am not putting all my eggs in one basket or in one location in my apartment. I have studied both military and police tactics all my life since my father was a WWII platoon Sgt. and he MADE sure I learned everything he knew from an early age. I served in the US Army and took Criminal Justice post graduate and I realize how jaded a view of the world I have. My first wife was a deputy sheriff and my current wife of over 30 years was a Lieutenant in the Colorado Prison System as well as the first woman to to command a full wing in the Men's Prison System.
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  2. #17
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'm not sure if it's still available, but the Winchester 185 gr Silvertip JHP was pretty good at not overpenetrating domestic walls but had a decent stopping effect on aggressive bipeds.
    Thanks for the suggestion! I will do research on the round!
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    I load Hornady 185 gr XTP at 900 fps for my wife to use. They are light, and expand well in most conditions. They would do as well as anything I have tried at staying inside a body, and not passing through several walls. And this bullet design is used in a lot of defensive ammo. It has a good record of stoping fights. I would prefer a heavier bullet but inside our house this will do the job! DR

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  5. #19
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    I load Hornady 185 gr XTP at 900 fps for my wife to use. They are light, and expand well in most conditions. They would do as well as anything I have tried at staying inside a body, and not passing through several walls. And this bullet design is used in a lot of defensive ammo. It has a good record of stoping fights. I would prefer a heavier bullet but inside our house this will do the job! DR
    Thanks, DR! I will do further investigation into the Hornady 185 gr XTP. DR, was my fathers initials standing for David Russel.

    I know I am setting some hard to meet perimeters. It is for sure an unlikely scenario to ever happen however I was taught to plan/train for worse cases so that if they never happen nothing lost but if they do then you are ready. Plus I'm retired and its fun. Yea, I know I'm weird.

    How do you deal with California and its "laws"? Were you born here? I mean NO disrespect but it is SO hard for someone like me that has lived in really "free" states over my 70 years to take easily. I am from such a different time and society it is really hard for me to hear the things I hear out here. Not to say I have not met some really great people but they are just so few and far between.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    @Two Bears I cannot speak from experience about Glasers, I doubt anybody in the country can. Just some words from years of looking at shooting victims.

    First, frangible rounds for pistols are more designed to protect the corporate bottom line than the user's life. Buy very many and you'd spend less money hiring private armed security.

    Second, anything that will save your life will penetrate almost anything. Learn to shoot and hit your target every time. With a proper load, and following the advice already given here as to firing angles, you'll be fine.

    Third, scenarios are fine unless you decide your scenario is exactly how things will go if, God forbid, the worst ever happens. At that point you may face a threat with exactly the wrong response. Better to plan general defensive principles and focus less on how you think it will go down. If a home invasion appears to be the most likely threat, plan general principles that will cover how it could go down.

    Fourth, lots of people focus on over penetration to the exclusion of protecting what is really important - and likely. The general idea is to get you and your wife out of the event alive. That is your first priority. If protecting your neighbors is your first priority, you'd probably be better off not owning a lethal weapon, and perhaps even moving in with them. Again, hit the threat center mass first time, every time and you'll generally be fine.

    Fifth, choose your ammo from what police carry - or failing knowing that, choose from reputable test data, not ad hype. I suggest spending some time here:

    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...c-tests/#45ACP

    Click on the PENETRATION DEPTH column to see how the various loads stack up. My department carried Federal HST. They work. Any caliber, any flavor. There are many others that do the same.

    Last, if you still cannot get over the concern for neighbors, let me recommend a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot. Forget the pistols. (Those who know me here are probably choking in a fit of hysterical laughter.) Be aware that the best load for defense is 00 or #1 buckshot (IMHO) but a shotgun, even loaded with birdshot, will bring out the cowardice in criminals. It won't do much to stop their criminal activities, but might trigger a stampede.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

    "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #21
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    Not trying to be cute or snarky, but how about "situational awareness?" Of course, that's a pretty broad term. What I'm thinking is, how about arranging your furniture so that your back is usually against a shared wall, and thus any shot you might have to take would be towards a window? Rule #4 of gun safety ("Be sure of your target and what is behind it"). Sounds like that's what concerns you in the first place.
    You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    @Two Bears I cannot speak from experience about Glasers, I doubt anybody in the country can. Just some words from years of looking at shooting victims.

    First, frangible rounds for pistols are more designed to protect the corporate bottom line than the user's life. Buy very many and you'd spend less money hiring private armed security.

    Second, anything that will save your life will penetrate almost anything. Learn to shoot and hit your target every time. With a proper load, and following the advice already given here as to firing angles, you'll be fine.

    Third, scenarios are fine unless you decide your scenario is exactly how things will go if, God forbid, the worst ever happens. At that point you may face a threat with exactly the wrong response. Better to plan general defensive principles and focus less on how you think it will go down. If a home invasion appears to be the most likely threat, plan general principles that will cover how it could go down.

    Fourth, lots of people focus on over penetration to the exclusion of protecting what is really important - and likely. The general idea is to get you and your wife out of the event alive. That is your first priority. If protecting your neighbors is your first priority, you'd probably be better off not owning a lethal weapon, and perhaps even moving in with them. Again, hit the threat center mass first time, every time and you'll generally be fine.

    Fifth, choose your ammo from what police carry - or failing knowing that, choose from reputable test data, not ad hype. I suggest spending some time here:

    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...c-tests/#45ACP

    Click on the PENETRATION DEPTH column to see how the various loads stack up. My department carried Federal HST. They work. Any caliber, any flavor. There are many others that do the same.

    Last, if you still cannot get over the concern for neighbors, let me recommend a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot. Forget the pistols. (Those who know me here are probably choking in a fit of hysterical laughter.) Be aware that the best load for defense is 00 or #1 buckshot (IMHO) but a shotgun, even loaded with birdshot, will bring out the cowardice in criminals. It won't do much to stop their criminal activities, but might trigger a stampede.
    Thanks for your input.

    First, I'm not afraid of dying (Christian and Saved) as I have already seen Death's Door and was turned around. Boy was that a surprise! At contact distance I would actually be faster and more lethal with one of my combat knives but only against one person. Yes. I do worry about others more than myself or my wife as we both know where we are going and me at 70 and she at 75 (and in ill heath) agree others are more important than we are. Unlike the average person I have enough experience in this "game" I will not hesitate to kill if needed. My way of thinking goes like this "if they are old enough to carry a gun they are old enough to die while doing it while committing a crime." I have seen way more people die than I care to in way more ways than I even care to remember. All my closest friends are dead, The last one fell face down in his cereal bowl. It would not bother me in the least to join them tomorrow if that is what God desires. HOWEVER, if some hard-cases come before that time I will do my level best to send them to the one that motivated them in their evil ways. I have multiple handguns from .22LR to a 7.5" .44 Magnum and a .45 ACP with 12 spare mags. I have three military grade ammo cans full of spare ammo. I even have a "sniper's rifle". So I am not just focused on "one scenario".

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    It is laudable that you are considering this ahead of time but be wary of over-thinking it. I think what it comes down to is the trade-offs; there is no escaping them. Shotgun vs handgun, too much penetration vs not enough, and ultimately, them vs you. I'm sure you know all this but sometimes it helps to revert to the basics and re-evaluate from there; a fresh look, so to speak. Ultimately, we brainstorm, plan, train, and at some point we've done (or are doing) all we can to prepare.

    If I were in an apartment or duplex situation with walls in common with neighbors, I think I'd focus on my defensive position first, trying to make the attackers come through a restrictive area like a hallway. That limits them to the "fatal funnel" and also limits my misses or pass-throughs to a particular area. Which I can then fortify with the aforementioned bookcases. There is no guarantee that the fight won't' be elsewhere but it's about all I might reasonably plan for. Beyond that and choosing my tools wisely, it comes down to "Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome".

    One last thing: Remember that a shotgun requires two hands and hampers your ability to negotiate doors and corners, as well as off-hand defensive use. On the other hand, it can be used as a short staff if you have the room to wield it. Also, avoid going too light on the bird shot. I'd recommend something smaller than 00, say 0—#2.

    JMO
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    Thanks, DR! I will do further investigation into the Hornady 185 gr XTP. DR, was my fathers initials standing for David Russel.

    I know I am setting some hard to meet perimeters. It is for sure an unlikely scenario to ever happen however I was taught to plan/train for worse cases so that if they never happen nothing lost but if they do then you are ready. Plus I'm retired and its fun. Yea, I know I'm weird.

    How do you deal with California and its "laws"? Were you born here? I mean NO disrespect but it is SO hard for someone like me that has lived in really "free" states over my 70 years to take easily. I am from such a different time and society it is really hard for me to hear the things I hear out here. Not to say I have not met some really great people but they are just so few and far between.
    I have lived in other states, But been in CA for most of 60 years.
    where I live is actually a very conservative area. We have the same laws , but even our Sheriff and prosicutors are of the same bent. I have also lived in AZ and ID, and I still fit in there well. As for how I put up with the laws here.... I have just retired and will be moving soon. I know that makes some out of staters cringe, But once I get new license plates Most of them will never know!

    What has kept me here is that in both AZ and ID I could not find year around work that would pay enough to keep a large family fed. In CA I could work as much as I wanted. Until the last couple of years I always had at least two jobs going at a time.
    Now I have enough retirement income to live anywhere I want. And the places I want to live don't have many neighbors! I'm tired of people telling me what I can't do! Two things that are effecting where I move is I have health problems that require that I live near a "Major" hospital. And that my wife doesn't like change. [ And she has been here in CA for near 70 years.] But we will work that out! We may buy enough land to give each of our kids land to build on. It makes Grandma happy to have the Grands near us, and gets our kids out of CA too! Two of them are nearing retirement from the Military, So it would be a good time to move them too! DR
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    As far as pistol ammo goes I have heard of very few incidents where a pistol bullet killed someone in the next apt. It's OK to think it through and plan to avoid as much exposure as possible, But I don't let that be the only factor that guides me to choose ammo.
    I look for ammo that would dump as much of its energy in the body its shot into as possible. That action also has most bullets caught in that body. Is it still possible to get a shoot through? yes! But how much energy is it still carrying?

    Good Luck. DR
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    If I could carry my firearm legally in CA, I would choose completely different ammo. In LA County I can carry my handgun in my car if it is in a lock case or storage compartment with the ammo in a separate compartment of the vehicle. Getting a CCW in LA County requires a near act of God and there is no such thing as open carry as I said. I have other firearms such as my .45ACP loaded with 230gr. Hydra-Shoks as well as others. I am looking at the ever increasing home invasion robberies and an easy carry gun/ammo solution for me. I'm 6'5" and 300lbs and wear loose clothing designed to easily hide a gun (from when I had a CCW in other states). That is why I am tailoring this to a specific need/scenario. I have other weapons that can address other scenarios much better.

    My nightstand gun is a 10 shot S&W 617-4 .22LR because at the distance I will be shooting I am deadly accurate with it as I shoot it so much and I will be shooting for the nose/eyes area. Currently, it is backed up by a Ruger SuperRedhawk loaded with Winchester 210 grain Silver tips sitting right next to my Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer III with D Duplek Monolit 32 Steel Slugs just in case someone is wearing body armor. So I am not putting all my eggs in one basket or in one location in my apartment. I have studied both military and police tactics all my life since my father was a WWII platoon Sgt. and he MADE sure I learned everything he knew from an early age. I served in the US Army and took Criminal Justice post graduate and I realize how jaded a view of the world I have. My first wife was a deputy sheriff and my current wife of over 30 years was a Lieutenant in the Colorado Prison System as well as the first woman to to command a full wing in the Men's Prison System.
    You know, reading your responses, you’ve already decided exactly how “your gunfight” is going to go down.

    I wish I had your prescience.

    Carry what you want, it's likely not going to matter.
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    So I am not just focused on "one scenario".
    I was just responding to your concern about a scenario where you are more focused on your neighbor’s safety than your own. You were not considering Glaser rounds for no reason.

    My comment about the shotgun and birdshot is still pertinent. Of all the options you have, that one has the best chance of stopping a threat with the least prospect of danger to your neighbors.

    Let me add that birdshot will do that for exactly the same reason frangible loads do - shallow bleeding wounds that hurt, but are very unlikely to kill.
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    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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  14. #28
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    I was just responding to your concern about a scenario where you are more focused on your neighbor’s safety than your own. You were not considering Glaser rounds for no reason.

    My comment about the shotgun and birdshot is still pertinent. Of all the options you have, that one has the best chance of stopping a threat with the least prospect of danger to your neighbors.

    Let me add that birdshot will do that for exactly the same reason frangible loads do - shallow bleeding wounds that hurt, but are very unlikely to kill.
    I did not take any offense. Birdshot at across the room distances hits in mass (effective). I know I set up a very narrow set of perimeters for a reason. I have all the other ones covered with what I already own. Perhaps its more of a matter of convenience on my part that I am looking for something that is simple and easy for ME to carry around my apartment yet is instantly at hand when I want/need it in a caliber/cartridge combination I will feel confidence in. As I am aging I am not getting an faster and at first blush within arms reach I am putting as much emphasis on "stopping" over killing. Hopefully that will allow for a fast follow up if needed but then I highly doubt I would be pulling the trigger only once depending on the bad guys physical reactions as I observe them. Mozambique Drill vs the Modified Mozambique Drill and number of offenders. I can not depend on my wife for back-up anymore as she is just to physically disabled these days.

    One of the things I would have going for me is if you threaten me with violence I will not hesitate to terminate. I thank the US Army for that bit of kit.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Glaser Safety Slugs:
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    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  16. #30
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    Had I known the situation I would not have recommended full power 44 magnum. For that situation here is my fall back. It is what I carry in my Glock.

    https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...18785728659513

    Here is a review of the ammo.

    Average velocity was 1601 fps from an Alpha Chrony at 10 feet. Extreme spread was 87. I shot a 6x4x13" gel block with a 2" paver block under and another above it to hold it in place. The gel block was blown to pieces and both paver blocks shattered by the concussion! I placed 2, gallon jugs of water behind the gel block in case of pass through, neither of which was penetrated. The largest remaining piece of the bullet (the base) weighed 40 grains. If you are looking for FBI protocol performance this would rate a zero. If you are looking for a round to carry, knowing you would be in mass crowds of people, it would be a perfect 5. A whole lot cheaper than a Glazer safety slug too! I had mixed feelings but gave it a score of five with the caveat of being extremely effective for a limited purpose.
    You have a 45 ACP but not the 44 yet? If you like 1911's I would suggest this instead of the 44 for your uses.

    https://www.sigsauer.com/store/1911-...are-carry.html



    Please boy's...... Birdshot is for birds. If you are worried about penetration use #4 Buck.
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