Max-expansion .44 Special or Lower Velocity Max-expansion loads in .44 Magnum

Max-expansion .44 Special or Lower Velocity Max-expansion loads in .44 Magnum

This is a discussion on Max-expansion .44 Special or Lower Velocity Max-expansion loads in .44 Magnum within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Anyone have experience with Max-expansion .44 Special loads without over penetration as well as similar loading in .44 Magnum while holding velocity down to limit ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Max-expansion .44 Special or Lower Velocity Max-expansion loads in .44 Magnum

    Anyone have experience with Max-expansion .44 Special loads without over penetration as well as similar loading in .44 Magnum while holding velocity down to limit over penetration? I'm speaking about bullets that really open at lower velocity especially in .44 Magnum yet hold together.

    I have loads that will travel from stem to stern on a Grizzly. I need ammo that will knock a drug crazed human on his rear without exiting and traveling through half a dozen apartments.

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    VIP Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Speed has made (not sure if still on the market) a .44 Mag "Short Barrel" loading with the 200 gr Gold Dot intended for the Special at enhanced velocity over the Special, but far less than full .44 Mag performance.
    Arkancide- Three self-inflicted gunshots to the head with hands tied behind the back.

    Active Shooter Response- Assess the situation, Position yourself to gain tactical advantage, Engage perpetrator violently (APE).

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    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    Speed has made (not sure if still on the market) a .44 Mag "Short Barrel" loading with the 200 gr Gold Dot intended for the Special at enhanced velocity over the Special, but far less than full .44 Mag performance.
    Thanks! I will check it out.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array entertainment72's Avatar
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    That Speer short barrel 44 Magnum load is discontinued. Great round for personal defense that I load in my Alaskan. It's loaded to very hot 44 Special levels and nowhere near standard rootin tootin 44 Magnum levels.

    Closest thing to it will be the Underwood 44 Special Bulldog load.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Array entertainment72's Avatar
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    May want to consider the Hornady 165gr 44SPL Critical Defense load if you are concerned about overpenetration. It is not a total fail but normally gets 10-11" of penetration in gel.
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    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the help! Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 44 Remington Magnum 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point was perfect from what I have found out but has been as you say it is discontinued. RATS! It fired a 200 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point at 1075 Feet Per Second out of a 4" test barrel. Well the search continues and I will check out those suggested.

    I doubt anyone has a case of the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .44 Remington Magnum 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point in a back closet just collecting dust they would be willing to part with to a worth cause?

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array entertainment72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    Thanks for all the help! Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 44 Remington Magnum 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point was perfect from what I have found out but has been as you say it is discontinued. RATS! It fired a 200 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point at 1075 Feet Per Second out of a 4" test barrel. Well the search continues and I will check out those suggested.

    I doubt anyone has a case of the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .44 Remington Magnum 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point in a back closet just collecting dust they would be willing to part with to a worth cause?
    If I had a bunch of the 44 Mag short barrel I'd part with some but I have a very limited stock. I'd recommend setting up a Gunbroker search for some and maybe they'll come along.

    You may also want to consider the Speer 44 SPL Gold Dot load. Less powerful than the Underwood 44 SPL but if you're concerned about over penetration it may do.

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    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entertainment72 View Post
    If I had a bunch of the 44 Mag short barrel I'd part with some but I have a very limited stock. I'd recommend setting up a Gunbroker search for some and maybe they'll come along.

    You may also want to consider the Speer 44 SPL Gold Dot load. Less powerful than the Underwood 44 SPL but if you're concerned about over penetration it may do.
    In process.
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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Id find some .44spl Silvertips.
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    Senior Member Array Grizzly2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Id find some .44spl Silvertips.
    Older ones from what I've heard. They changed I believe.
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    Senior Member Array retired badge 1's Avatar
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    Sorry to offend, but I have to respond with a small dose of reality.

    I started to list all the myths perpetrated by magazine articles, firearms "experts", and more lately the internet forums and blogs. Then I realized that reality has no standing with a great number of people, many of whom seem to be desperate to believe that the "ABC" outperforms the "XYZ", or the "number 27" is so far superior to the "number 29", that the debate is over and there is only one possible solution (usually offered by a paid advertiser in your magazine or blog/forum of choice).

    Jello tests are jello tests. All these experiments do is compare the performance of one round against another round in controlled conditions (weather, humidity, ambient temperature, and a dozen other variables). It seems that many folks accept these results as holy scripture, when all that is offered is a comparative frame of reference at one time, in one place, under certain condition.

    The facts remain:

    1. Nothing performs exactly the same under any or all conditions.
    2. Over-penetration is a legitimate concern, but not the over-riding consideration in a self-defense situation.
    3. Bullets designed to expand (thus dissipate energy efficiently in a given medium) may or may not perform as intended.
    4. The levels of velocity and energy required to force any given projectile to perform as desired are not constant from one firearm to another, or from one range to another, or from one incident to another. There is no magic involved.
    5. The force that stops an aggressive beast, whether animal or human, is that force which terminates central nervous system functions (clearly a matter of shot placement more than projectile performance) or causes massive tissue damage resulting in sudden blood loss and unconsciousness, thus concluding the hostile encounter (also much more a matter of shot placement than any aspect of bullet performance).

    Those who expend hours or days dreaming about the ultimate handgun performance projectile would be better served by more range time to master the use of their weapons so that, when shooting is required, the shots fired terminate the need for shooting. A .22 Short that penetrates the aorta or jugular is far more effective than the largest magnum caliber that misses the intended target. The FMJ bullet that feeds, fires, extracts, and ejects reliably is far more effective than the newest super-duper FrazBat nonsense (that the "experts" swear by) that won't fit the magazine, won't feed reliably, and won't shoot to point of aim in your handgun.

    Expecting any handgun bullet to expand reliably at moderate velocities is an exercise in foolishness. Relying on bullet expansion to overcome a lack of accuracy in placing your shots is worse than foolishness, it is willful negligence.

    For those of you whose bubbles I am bursting, please don't listen to me at all. I'm not making any money here, I'm not getting a check from a publisher or ammunition manufacturer to say these things. I'm just an old combat veteran (4 Purple Hearts) and retired cop (shot once in the line of duty) who has actually tried to learn the hard lessons.

    When the situation requires try to make every shot count, and stop worrying needlessly about the trivial nonsense.
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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    A retired homicide Det friend of mine has shot and killed at least 2 people with the Remington 180 grain 44 mag JHP. He indicates that the Remington has a thin jacket and acts like a 125 grain 357 magnum on steroids. PMC Bronze loads use the Remington bullet in their 44 mag load. I load Speer GD 200 grain 44 special bullet over win 296 as my carry load. It will fragment a little, but not like the 180 Remington.

    Why is "staying together" important to you for SD uses?

    Magnum revolvers loaded with the correct ammo for the intended purpose have a very consistent track record across the board.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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    Senior Member Array entertainment72's Avatar
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    Here is some load data
    Attached Files
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    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    A retired homicide Det friend of mine has shot and killed at least 2 people with the Remington 180 grain 44 mag JHP. He indicates that the Remington has a thin jacket and acts like a 125 grain 357 magnum on steroids. PMC Bronze loads use the Remington bullet in their 44 mag load. I load Speer GD 200 grain 44 special bullet over win 296 as my carry load. It will fragment a little, but not like the 180 Remington.

    Why is "staying together" important to you for SD uses?

    Magnum revolvers loaded with the correct ammo for the intended purpose have a very consistent track record across the board.
    Your Remington 180 grain 44 mag JHP comparison to the a 125 grain 357 magnum does make since to me. I'm used to thinking more of either bigger/slower for people and bigger maxed out for bears. Thanks for the reality check. Sometimes we get stuck in a rut in our thinking.
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    Your Remington 180 grain 44 mag JHP comparison to the a 125 grain 357 magnum does make since to me. I'm used to thinking more of either bigger/slower for people and bigger maxed out for bears. Thanks for the reality check. Sometimes we get stuck in a rut in our thinking.
    Not a problem. People sometimes dismiss bullet construction from the equation. It can be just as important as mass, velocity, etc. Fragmentation, along with enough mass for penetration is VERY effective for SD. The 5.56 and 357 magnum taught us that. Big and slow is great for meat hunting, Elmer Keith taught us that.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

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