Online training courses

Online training courses

This is a discussion on Online training courses within the Defensive Books, Video & References forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Anybody got experience on online courses and training about shooting and self defense? I´m not talking about courses you take before applying for CCW permit, ...

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33
Like Tree59Likes

Thread: Online training courses

  1. #1
    Member Array YJT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    55
    Anybody got experience on online courses and training about shooting and self defense? I´m not talking about courses you take before applying for CCW permit, but rather more advanced, perhaps more tactics oriented stuff? Also, I don´t mean shooting DVDs like the Art of the Pistol, etc but rather actual courses that are structured as lectures and perhaps have progressive curriculums.

    Something like:
    - Concealed carry masters course (https://concealedcarrymasterscourse.com)
    - Personal Defense Network courses (https://www.personaldefensenetwork.c...lasses/page/2/)
    - Mike Seeklander online training (http://blog.shooting-performance.com...ining-program/)

    Do you find this kind of instruction more beneficial than regular instructional DVD´s? Can you recommend these, or other similar courses?
    CG11, Big Western and baren like this.

  2. #2
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the Superstitions
    Posts
    19,639
    Second link is all Rob Pincus courses. I met and trained with Pincus for 1/2 a day at the 1" to 100 yrds" event in Laughlin, Nevada back around 07-08. He's a marketer of the highest order, and didn't offer much in the way of revelations on shooting. Did pick up on one of his drills that's useful in practice, so I feel if one can glean even 1 practice drill that increases skills levels it may be worth the expense of the online course/s.

    The first one is pure marketing BS IMO.

    Have no knowledge of seaklander, no comment.

    In the grander scheme, I wouldn't be interested in paying for any on line courses from anyone. Hands on, where the trainer can make remedials when necessary
    Pete63, OldChap, Mike1956 and 1 others like this.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    3,966
    Sir, many of the online courses are going to be focused on effective defensive gun use in the U.S. I'm not aware of laws in your country, but those laws certainly will affect how you carry, where you carry, and implications for employing your weapon(s) is various situations.

    There is probably some value to learning from online courses developed from a U.S. perspective, but if there are local trainers and lawyers who can speak with authority about use of lethal force in your country that's probably the best option. Having the confidence to know when and how you can use lethal force with less fear of the hellish legal battles after the fact will go a long way to improving your ability if it's needed.
    OldChap likes this.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member Array YJT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Sir, many of the online courses are going to be focused on effective defensive gun use in the U.S.
    Yes, I´m aware of that. I have read books and watched DVDs about guns and self defense that are made for American market for several decades, and that is always a concern fow me. However, the fundamentals are more or less the same, and I believe that I can spot the differences. I usually skip the law section, anyway.

    However, what I´m interested is the technical shooting skills, and tactics when it cames to CCW especially as I have not studied CCW issues for very long.
    Pete63, OldChap, graydude and 1 others like this.

  6. #5
    Member Array YJT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Second link is all Rob Pincus courses.
    ...

    The first one is pure marketing BS IMO.

    Have no knowledge of seaklander, no comment.
    Yes, I have a lots of material from Pincus and several books from Seeklander. I like them both, Seeklender is more conventional but he presents very detailed traninig programs in his books. Pincus is more out of the box thinker, in my opinion. Somewhat like post-Paladin Press Gabe Suarez, or Ralph Mroz.

    I agree about the marketing of the CCW Masters Course, but I have learned that BS marketing is not a guarantee of a BS product. However, I recently found their companion manual at the Internet and although the majority of the course material seems to be on the DVDs, the instruction seems detailed. The course seems to be geared mostly towards inexperienced shooters, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    In the grander scheme, I wouldn't be interested in paying for any on line courses from anyone. Hands on, where the trainer can make remedials when necessary
    Of course, hands on training is better. But I believe that books, DVDs and online courses can supplement hands on instruction.
    AzQkr and Big Western like this.

  7. #6
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the Superstitions
    Posts
    19,639
    I look at on line and dvd courses/instructional materials with firearms the same way I look at those venues for defensive edged weapons training. Not nearly as effective as hands on training with guidance from instructors in real time. I bought a few knife defense vids, thought they held some value too, until I started training with an emeritus in blade defense, then it became quote clear the vids would never get me anywhere near the level of skills no matter how often I watched or practiced from them as just 4 hours with live training afforded.

    The vids still held value, but not on the streets where it will count. Took 3 years of training with the emeritus [ about 50 hours ] before I was proficient enough to work the first years skills without thinking about them thus having those autonomic responses ingrained. After 9 years with him, I was capable of imparting the first 2 years knowledge he afforded, to others [ with hundreds of hours of diligent practice ].
    OldChap, Hoganbeg and Mike1956 like this.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,416
    I shot in competition and there were then, as now, books telling one how to shoot in NRA Bullseye competitions. Then, as is probably the case now, trying to substitute anything for actually shooting a training regime has very limited value. I could not have ever gotten beyond the lowest score in the group had I only read a book. There is no substitute for the real thing.

    Now “gaming” how you would respond in certain scenarios? Yes, there might be value in videos, just as there is in dry fire, laser shooting systems, even just sitting quietly and thinking through them has value. But actual shooting? No...the real thing has no substitute or shortcut.

    @YJT . You’re a police officer, are you not? Would you have felt adequately prepared for street work if they had just handed you a DVD and said, “Watch it three times, and you graduate and you’re ready for whatever you will ever have to face in your community” ?

    I wouldn’t.
    AzQkr and Mike1956 like this.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

    "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #8
    Ex Member
    Array 1942bull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    2,103
    I remember watching a fifteen minute bayonet fighting training film at Parris Island. We received a training manual with pictures and text. Then we watched a film of the the techniques. A couple days later we went for hands on technique training followed by going through the training course stabbing straw dummies, etc. We did that over and over again. I can say this with certainty. The manual and the video were useless. The hands on training prepared us. The manual nor the video did not tell you things like the following.

    Your feet are too apart. Sholulder wide dummy.
    Don’t use the parry to just block. Learn this. Use it to push the bayonet away so you can make a clean butt stroke.
    Throw your whole body behind the thrust. You just stabbed straw. People are much harder than straw. Think live.

    Now that might seem corny to some but it how they trained and still train Marines. There is no substitute for an instructor. And do not sign up with an instructor who has never had to face a possible gun fight. The instructor that has had to will understand what adrenaline does to and for you.
    AzQkr, Hoganbeg, Mike1956 and 1 others like this.

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array CG11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    NorthWestern Arizona
    Posts
    5,322
    The missing ingredient in the books, dvds, and online training programs is feedback. Without that, you are depending on your own understanding as to whether you are doing something right or not. Not entirely useless, of course, but why pay for something and get maybe 25% of it?
    1942bull, AzQkr and Mike1956 like this.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    4,083
    My belief is that one needs the actual hands on training with the physical feedback and instructor's corrections to acquire the basic skill and conditioning. After that, the student will have a base of physical experience against which to evaluate any new or different concepts. Even then, those new ideas will need to be worked on a real range in order to assimilate them. Generally (meaning there are exceptions) the more real world experience one has, the easier it is to assimilate the purely cerebral.

    For instance, you can read or see a video telling you not to crowd your cover but it's in the shooting that the lesson hits home and exceptions are noted.
    AzQkr, YJT and Mike1956 like this.
    ...You will understand everything immediately, when you yourself – "hands behind the back" – toddle into our Archipelago. ---Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  12. #11
    Member Array YJT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    @YJT . You’re a police officer, are you not? Would you have felt adequately prepared for street work if they had just handed you a DVD and said, “Watch it three times, and you graduate and you’re ready for whatever you will ever have to face in your community” ?

    I wouldn’t.
    I wouldn´t, either, However, nobody suggested that one should just watch the films and that´s it. I don´t understand, where that came from. Just watching the DVDs would be akin to attending a training class and just watching the instructor performing and not training yourself.

    It is true that hands-on instruction is better than watching films and/or reading books and then training by yourself. But if you get only say 25% benefit from DVDs, it´s still better than 0%. And it´s true that the less experiece you have, the more important it is to have someone to correct mistakes etc.
    OldChap, Instymp and Big Western like this.

  13. #12
    Member Array YJT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by CG11 View Post
    why pay for something and get maybe 25% of it?
    Of course, attending training classes is the best option, but DVDs have some advantages over classes, like:
    - at the price of a training class (and other expenses like traveling), you can probably buy several DVDs
    - you can watch the DVDs over and over again
    - you can watch them when it fits your schedule
    - training in several relatively short sessions is more effective than training in intensive, two-day course for example
    - by watching DVDs you can get training from instructors whose trainig classes you cannot participate for some reason (distance, cost, limited to certain audiences, etc)

    I think that the best option would be to first attend a traning class, and then refreshing your memory by watching DVDs form the same instructor that covers the same issues that in the training class.

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array BlackhawkGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    1,401
    YJT, is it easy to find handgun training where you live? Or is it very basic, and not sufficient for what you want to accomplish?
    Everything I needed to know in life was captured in one Indiana Jones minute:

    https://youtu.be/7YyBtMxZgQs

  15. #14
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion county, Ohio
    Posts
    33,489
    I've watched a few how-to shooting videos, which were almost always promotional for whatever training the instructor offered in-person.

    One gun guy whose videos I do enjoy watching is Dave Spaulding, simply because of their entertainment value. Dave is a very engaging, articulate and funny guy.
    AzQkr likes this.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws.”― Friedrich Nietzsche

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion county, Ohio
    Posts
    33,489
    I've watched a few how-to shooting videos, which were almost always promotional for whatever training the instructor offered in-person.

    One gun guy whose videos I do enjoy watching is Dave Spaulding, simply because of their entertainment value. Dave is a very engaging, articulate and funny guy. He is also a top-notch firearms trainer.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws.”― Friedrich Nietzsche

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •