Is Single Stack Worth the Compromise? - Page 10

Is Single Stack Worth the Compromise?

This is a discussion on Is Single Stack Worth the Compromise? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by balis If you know anything, you wont be concerned about getting hits from prone, you'll be concerned about not GETTING hit, Rambo ...

Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 184
Like Tree287Likes

Thread: Is Single Stack Worth the Compromise?

  1. #136
    Distinguished Member Array wsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,339
    Quote Originally Posted by balis View Post
    If you know anything, you wont be concerned about getting hits from prone, you'll be concerned about not GETTING hit, Rambo
    There is only one thing that wins gunfights. Accurate hits. Everything else (whether it comes out of the barrel of a gun or out of your word hole) is just....noise.

  2. #137
    Ex Member Array balis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    37
    right, I've trained some of the guy's you'd recommend, most likely. I started with Jeff Cooper in 1970, how about you? I helped him set up the IPSC. I've shot with Hack, Mas, Bill Wilson, many others. i've popped about 200k caps in combat training, mostly with 1911's and colt .22 units.

  3. #138
    Distinguished Member Array DHart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    1,397
    Interesting. Your posts don't seem to reflect that kind of extensive experience. I honestly was thinking you were a very young person. But it really doesn't matter. Not all of us are going to agree with, nor like, everyone else here, so there it is. And I don't think I have anything else to add here.
    dugo and OD* like this.
    “Inequality" is a law of nature, not something government can "re-distribute”. The fit, well-educated, hard-working will prosper. And the unfit will not. It is not the responsibility of those who work hard and prosper to make the lives of those who do not, more “equal."

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #139
    Distinguished Member Array wsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,339
    Quote Originally Posted by balis View Post
    right, I've trained some of the guy's you'd recommend, most likely. I started with Jeff Cooper in 1970, how about you? I helped him set up the IPSC. I've shot with Hack, Mas, Bill Wilson, many others. i've popped about 200k caps in combat training, mostly with 1911's and colt .22 units.
    If you are indeed an elder statesman of the defensive shooting community, please explain why your sage advice differs so profoundly from the collective body of work amassed by the gentlemen that you claim to be a contemporary with. Your suggestion to dive for cover and not worry about subsequent ability to get hits on your assailant sounds like it originates in a location that is a 450 mile drive to the west of Paulden, AZ. Your flat-out rejection of every handgun that happens to have more than one column of cartridges in the magazine seems to be at odds with logic....and is definitely at odds with the configuration of the pistol that Colonel Cooper had a direct hand in designing.
    DHart, HotBrass45, OD* and 2 others like this.

  6. #140
    Senior Member Array firefighterguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    606
    Speaking of magazine changes, can anyone cite a case in which someone did a mag change? Pretty sure I heard tom Givens say he had researched it and there weren't any. Same with shootings in which having a flashlight would've helped but that's a different topic.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #141
    New Member Array 1smoothredneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    12
    To me, yes. The thin profile, comfort, & light weight of a "slim nine" is a justifiable trade off from a double stack pistol.
    I can, and have, conceal carried double stack pistols, and it's quite doable. However, a single stack 9mm and a thin, flat, spare mag with a +2 baseplate is just a dream to edc.

    I'm with Fizban... As an old wheel gun guy, I feel quite well armed. In my case, my 7 shot Glock 43 and an 8 round spare magazine, both loaded with +p+ jhp, gives me all the juice I'm likely to ever need.

    I often carry a bug pocket pistol. but that was the case with double stacks too, so that's a wash.

    Be safe.

  8. #142
    Distinguished Member Array patkelly4370's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterguy View Post
    Speaking of magazine changes, can anyone cite a case in which someone did a mag change? Pretty sure I heard tom Givens say he had researched it and there weren't any. Same with shootings in which having a flashlight would've helped but that's a different topic.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not that common in the real world.

    http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.c...dings.html?m=1

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
    firefighterguy likes this.

  9. #143
    Distinguished Member Array DHart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    1,397
    Quote Originally Posted by 1smoothredneck View Post
    my 7 shot Glock 43 and an 8 round spare magazine, both loaded with +p+ jhp, gives me all the juice I'm likely to ever need.
    The vast majority of us won't ever NEED to use a pistol in a self defense situation.

    When we equip ourselves with carry weapons, we are doing it to prepare for a really bad situation that we are not at all likely to ever face.

    So, one could rationalize that a 5-shot revolver or a pocket mouse-gun is all they would ever need, and they would probably be right, as they probably won't ever need even that.

    The truth is that we have no idea what we would really need, should such a dark day become a reality for any of us.

    So, carry a G43, a pocket .380, a Desert Eagle, a S&W 500 revolver, or an 18-round G17.... carry whatever you think you're going to need that you are able to implement with skill and don't worry about it, because you probably aren't going to need any of them, anyway.

    And if you do need to use a gun in defense, the scenario you face may very well not be anything, at all, like you thought it might be for you. I think we should expect nothing; or expect something quite unexpected and prepare accordingly for it.

    How you decide to do that is a highly personal matter that should be undertaken with considerable education and contemplation about yourself and the environment around where you frequent. This isn't a matter for quick decision, nor for others to decide for you.
    Last edited by DHart; July 24th, 2016 at 12:26 AM.
    “Inequality" is a law of nature, not something government can "re-distribute”. The fit, well-educated, hard-working will prosper. And the unfit will not. It is not the responsibility of those who work hard and prosper to make the lives of those who do not, more “equal."

  10. #144
    Distinguished Member Array wsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,339
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    The truth is that we have no idea what we would really need, should such a dark day become a reality for any of us.
    And that is the crux of the matter.

    If I knew what I was going to need on any given day to deal with the specific threat that I am going to face, that would imply that I knew what sort of gunfight I was going to get into on that day. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I know that I will get into a gunfight that day, I'm not going to leave the house without a mechanized infantry platoon in support.

    That leaves the days where you have a slim chance of needing to defend yourself. You need to carry something compact enough that you will carry it - and something potent enough to deal with whatever you find yourself facing. Since even the inhabitants of Mayberry don't know what they will find themselves facing, my suggestion is to carry the most effective defensive option that you know how to manage in the course of your day.

    Unless you have serious restrictions placed upon you by the clothing that you wear at work, I'd suggest that most people can carry a mid-sized pistol if they wish to. Whether it is a Glock 19, H&K USPc, or a Commander sized 1911, the fact is that a good gun belt and a good holster will mean that you will be able to carry a minimum of one mid sized pistol and one spare magazine if you decide to do so. If you make the choice to carry less - that is your prerogative.

    And by the way....if it's a serious fighting pistol that you've spent time training with I don't really believe that single vs double stack or 9 versus 40 versus 45 has ANY significance when measured against your ability to effectively use that tool. Mindset > tactics > skill > gear
    DHart likes this.

  11. #145
    Distinguished Member Array Camjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    1,342
    I carried a 5 shot J frame or a double stack XD for years as my primary, and have switched to a commander length 1911. It conceals OWB better than my XD did IWB, and in no way feel like it won't be enough should, God forbid, the balloon goes up.
    One Riot, One Ranger. Long live the Republic of Texas.

    JOIN THE NRA AND DO IT TODAY!!

    "It is madness for sheep to talk peace with a wolf." -- Thomas Fuller

    The 1911: An elegant weapon from a more civilized age...

  12. #146
    Distinguished Member Array wsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,339
    Quote Originally Posted by patkelly4370 View Post
    Not that common in the real world.

    The Thinking Gunfighter: Self Defense Findings

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
    I understand what Mr. Werner is saying in the linked article, but in the first paragraph he made the following statement:

    The shooting distance in the vast majority of cases was slightly in excess of arm's length.
    At this distances, even .22s and .25s are highly immediately lethal.


    #1. He is speaking to lethality...which is of exactly ZERO concern to an armed citizen seeking to stop an assailant. I would actually prefer that my attacker does not die. What is of immediate concern to me is does he stop doing whatever gave me cause to shoot him in the first place - and does so post-haste.

    #2. I would argue that unless you achieve a CNS hit from exactly the right angle, there will be very little that is "immediate" about the fight-stopping effects of a .22 or .25. Calibers of that sort come up short in penetration, diameter of permanent wound cavity, diameter of temporary wound cavity, and overall energy transferred.
    OD* likes this.

  13. #147
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Senior Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Staff lounge
    Posts
    21,599
    Quote Originally Posted by balis View Post
    right, I've trained some of the guy's you'd recommend, most likely. I started with Jeff Cooper in 1970, how about you? I helped him set up the IPSC. I've shot with Hack, Mas, Bill Wilson, many others. i've popped about 200k caps in combat training, mostly with 1911's and colt .22 units.


    Camjr, JD, SteveMac and 8 others like this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
    End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."




    NRA Patron Member

  14. #148
    Distinguished Member Array wsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,339
    Quote Originally Posted by 1smoothredneck View Post
    To me, yes. The thin profile, comfort, & light weight of a "slim nine" is a justifiable trade off from a double stack pistol.
    I can, and have, conceal carried double stack pistols, and it's quite doable. However, a single stack 9mm and a thin, flat, spare mag with a +2 baseplate is just a dream to edc.

    I'm with Fizban... As an old wheel gun guy, I feel quite well armed. In my case, my 7 shot Glock 43 and an 8 round spare magazine, both loaded with +p+ jhp, gives me all the juice I'm likely to ever need.

    I often carry a bug pocket pistol. but that was the case with double stacks too, so that's a wash.

    Be safe.
    For the same reason that a G43 or Shield carried in a good holster (instead of in a pocket) is comfortable, you may find that other single stacks do very well for concealed carry. Many of the same factors that make my S&W Shield easy to carry also apply to my bobtailed 1911. The round count isn't all that different...but the ability to put effective,accurate hits on target is. That extra effectiveness comes with a weight penalty...but that's why I wear a good stiff gun belt.

    Your G43 is a good option - I am simply offering that many of the things you like about it may also hold true of a larger single stack.
    OD* likes this.

  15. #149
    Distinguished Member Array patkelly4370's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by wsquared View Post
    I understand what Mr. Werner is saying in the linked article, but in the first paragraph he made the following statement:

    The shooting distance in the vast majority of cases was slightly in excess of arm's length.
    At this distances, even .22s and .25s are highly immediately lethal.


    #1. He is speaking to lethality...which is of exactly ZERO concern to an armed citizen seeking to stop an assailant. I would actually prefer that my attacker does not die. What is of immediate concern to me is does he stop doing whatever gave me cause to shoot him in the first place - and does so post-haste.

    #2. I would argue that unless you achieve a CNS hit from exactly the right angle, there will be very little that is "immediate" about the fight-stopping effects of a .22 or .25. Calibers of that sort come up short in penetration, diameter of permanent wound cavity, diameter of temporary wound cavity, and overall energy transferred.
    The point I was referencing with this article is the theme of this thread, that a single-stack is a "compromise".
    My take, and opinion, is that a single-stack is not a compromise.
    I personally carry a double-stack for ergonomics and logistics. I live in California so I'm limited to 10 rounds in a Beretta designed for 17 rounds. Double-stack just fits my paws better.
    Caliber size and lethality is a different thread. (FWIW I used to work at a County hospital that was a level 1 trauma center and have seen many, many, many gunshot wounds, fatal and otherwise)

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

  16. #150
    Distinguished Member Array patkelly4370's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,791
    Carry what is comforting and that you are accurate with.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

ccw single vs double stack
,
comfortable with single stack as only gun
,

defensive carry forum handgun

,
do i really need a double stack for concealed carry
,
is a single stack worth carrying
,
single stack vs double stack
,

single stack vs double stack concealed carry

,
single stack vs double stack reliability
,
single stack vs. double stack iwb
Click on a term to search for related topics.