First time @range after training

First time @range after training

This is a discussion on First time @range after training within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I finally got to go the range for the first time after my training class about a month ago. Considering myself to be a novice ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array ParsonBrown's Avatar
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    First time @range after training

    I finally got to go the range for the first time after my training class about a month ago. Considering myself to be a novice at best...was the whole weekend a fairy tale? LOL...

    I had my G26 with me and I put about 30 rounds in the target below @ 5-7 yards...all shots were from concealment.

    I'm pretty pleased with the progress I have made. Earlier this year, most of the shots would have been outside of the circle and head shots were a pipe dream. No shots would have been from concealment 2 months ago.

    I can tell that I need to work on my finger placement on the trigger. I am getting too close to the joint.

    Interestingly enough I experienced slide bite for the first time as well. Getting that high purchase from concealment needs a bit of fine tuning.

    Question(s)

    1. Do you set a round limit when you go to the range (indoor vs outdoor)? Obviously can vary depending on what you are going to work on. I shot about 100 (50 through a Sig P365).
    2. Do you dedicate part of your time to just marksmanship? I feel like I am overthinking it too much when I do that. Singles or double taps from concealment feel so much better...and maybe a bit more accurate?

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  2. #2
    JD
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    Have a plan.

    Round count and skills to be worked on should always be thought out first. Different skills require different ammo counts.

    Speed drills will burn a lot more ammo than failure to stop drills. Etc.

    Not all ranges will allow work from concealment so that's a factor.

    I will usually start or end with accuracy to confirm equipment.

    If I get to the range and can't shoot a slow fire 1" group at 7 yards I know I have a problem.

    If at the end of a high round count range session and my group is left, right, high, low etc. it means my sights may have loosened and drifted and require attention.



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    VIP Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
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    I normally have a plan and round count depends on the plan.

    Luckily due to shooting a couple matches a month it seems like there's always something I need work on. Accuracy/slow fire is always where I start, UNLESS I'm working on something that I want to start cold. For instance at this past Sunday's IDPA match, we ran a classifier for our 1st stage, literally no warm-up, practice draws etc. Basically "performance on demand", which is actually a great way to make an assessment as to where you really sit. I missed Expert by 3 points by screwing up a final headshot on the last stage. I miss counted and put 5 COM rather than 4 COM and 1 Head, so I was down 6pts total.

    So that's what i'm practicing this SAT.

    Another thing I find valuable is using a timer. IMHO defensive shooting is a combination of speed AND accuracy. Frankly I'm not all that impressed by groups unless I know the conditions (time, distance, concealment etc.) under which they were made.
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    Distinguished Member Array dennis40x's Avatar
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    Just a comment concerning the IDPA target. Just received new targets yesterday. The scoring for the head is now a 4 inch circle as opposed to the 6X6 inch square with out a minus 1 The body remains the same 8 inch scoring circle. I don't know when this change took place haven't ordered targets in a long time.

  6. #5
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
    Just a comment concerning the IDPA target. Just received new targets yesterday. The scoring for the head is now a 4 inch circle as opposed to the 6X6 inch square with out a minus 1 The body remains the same 8 inch scoring circle. I don't know when this change took place haven't ordered targets in a long time.
    Just about 2 years ago?

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    VIP Member Array Gabill's Avatar
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    I try to go through 2 or 3 of my carry guns. 5-7 yards, 10-15. that's as long as the indoor range is. The range I go to will not let you fire from holster. From the people I see coming in there I can understand why. You will get a lot of great info from these guys on the forum about training.
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    When I first practiced drawing from holster and getting the proper grip on my Glock, I SHOVED my hand down so the web of my hand went firmly into the little beavertail type curve at the top of the rear of the grip, then completed my grip. Dozens and dozens of times until it became muscle memory. This will give you the proper high grip but not so high that your hand sticks up above that curve and gets bitten. If your slide bite is on your fingers from holding them too high, you can work - again dozens and dozens of draw strokes - on either holding your thumbs out a tad or a bit lower. Holding fingers and thumbs a bit lower changes your grip and possibly your aim a bit, so that takes more practice. It is building muscle memory so it becomes totally automatic.

    All of this can be done at home with an unloaded gun.

    As I learned things: Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. It comes together over time until you wind up with one smooth, fast draw with the proper grip. That is when you will be able to draw and get your gun on target quickly in a SD situation also.

    For me it makes no difference whether it is behind cover, IWB, OWB, out in the open or whatever. It took a long time and a lot of practice, but then I could work on "the other stuff." Caveat: If I am wearing a belly band (very rarely) this doesn't work so well because the gun is too low inside my pants and too close to my body. That takes more and different practice.
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    Looking good Mr. Brown! I like shoot 150 -250, depends on time. I like to work on all aspects. Depends on what the range will allow.

    One fact to shooting slow, fast or anything in between is trigger control. If you move the gun when you pull the trigger all bets are pretty much off.

    A drill I like to do:
    Load one round into your mag, chamber the round, drop the mag, focus on the front sight, (donít worry about accuracy), shoot the round, pull the trigger on the empty chamber, still focusing on the front sight, if it moves at all you are moving the gun when you pull the trigger.
    Works in 1911, not sure about others.
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    Member Array ParsonBrown's Avatar
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    My slide bite was on the web of my hand between the thumb and trigger finger ;)

    The range was an indoor range. They are pretty cool about most things, but obviously no moving, mag drops and they are cautious with too much rapid fire. At this point in time I cannot draw fast enough yet to alarm anyone in the building...but at least I'm hitting paper .

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    Distinguished Member Array dennis40x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Just about 2 years ago?

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    Thank you for the reply. The last time I ordered from National Target in quantity of 100. This time from Midway in quantity of 25.

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    Distinguished Member Array dennis40x's Avatar
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    What I've noticed is that in rapid fire sequences trigger-press & recoil-management failure contribute to reduced accuracy for most individuals. There was an individual at a shooting association of which I'm a land share owner was having difficulty hitting the 8 inch diameter scoring circle of a IDPA target in rapid fire sequence. I mentioned/instructed him to aim at the then 6 inch square scoring ring of the head. All of his shots went into the 8 inch body scoring ring. We then had a discussion on trigger press, recoil management and keeping ones eyes open. I also told him decades in the past that I and a USMC E-7 Gunnery Sgt had a similar discussion
    Last edited by dennis40x; September 12th, 2018 at 06:25 PM.

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    JD
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    Speaking of new targets....


    This is gonna be the new hotness.

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    I can't count but two boxes of ammo is all my knees and back will allow.
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    @ParsonBrown I second the idea of having a plan. I try to go to the range 3x per month. I normally only bring the rounds I'm going to shoot which around 150 rounds. I will do two rounds of the dot torture (50 rounds a piece) and then 50 rounds for accuracy. Then I'll clean my carry gun, reload with self defense ammo and leave the range.

    I used to just practice for accuracy until I started the dot torture. I discovered a whole new set of skills to master. Drawing from concealment depends if your holster is IWB and your shirt is tucked in or out. The weak hand drills have given me something to work on. I learned that with the dot torture, you the goal is not necessary to hit the dots each time, but practice the skill. So long as you're close to COM, you'll be fine. Its wild shots that you want to learn to avoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParsonBrown View Post
    I finally got to go the range for the first time after my training class about a month ago. .......................

    Question(s)

    1. Do you set a round limit when you go to the range (indoor vs outdoor)? Obviously can vary depending on what you are going to work on. I shot about 100 (50 through a Sig P365).
    2. Do you dedicate part of your time to just marksmanship? I feel like I am overthinking it too much when I do that. Singles or double taps from concealment feel so much better...and maybe a bit more accurate?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Well Parson Brown, congratulations on attending a class! Are you wanting to attend another? Good training 1) My round limit is dependent upon the objective for the range session. If the objective is to improve skills, I have a plan before heading out. I anticipate on shooting around 200 - 250 rounds during a two hour session, depending upon the weather. My individual sessions are not intended to produce a stress fire training situation, so I don't continue shooting if I am too hot, cold, or tired. (Sometimes I just want to go out and see if any of my buddies are shooting and visit for a while. I have went on occasion and returned to home base without firing a shot. Fortunately, I don't have far to travel!)
    2) Yes, marksmanship is important to me. I want to hit what I am shooting at. Speed doesn't stop a threat if hits on target aren't made. Some suggestions have been made regarding use of timers. I like using a timer and doing small dot drills. I don't always come from holster. Sometimes I start with the firearm ona table or bench, where it has to be picked up and then fired. As a former bullseye competitor, I know that there are many elements that go into accuracy, but most of them can be worked on in the comfort of your home without firing a shot. Grip, sight alignment, trigger pull, and follow through. Likewise, as Shooter Granny mentioned, drawing can also be worked on from the comfort of your home with an unloaded firearm. If you are going to do such, please let the persons sharing your abode know. It is very disconcerting for someone to enter a room and have someone draw on them.

    Good luck and good shooting as you continue your development. Enjoy the journey.

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