AR15 Home Defense - Page 4

AR15 Home Defense

This is a discussion on AR15 Home Defense within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by oldbadger I cruised through this thread looking for a post that addressed the issue of an AR round "doing an Elvis" and ...

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Thread: AR15 Home Defense

  1. #46
    New Member Array TXGREEK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbadger View Post
    I cruised through this thread looking for a post that addressed the issue of an AR round "doing an Elvis" and leaving the building. That is, I am pretty sure that if fired into a bad guy and then through him into an outside wall it would go still go through an ordinary wall. I think the AR round is fast enough and heavy enough to penetrate an outside wall, unless brick or concrete block is used for the wall construction. I like the idea of keeping rounds that I am responsible for staying in the building if at all possible. I know that in this thread there will be conflicting views on this issue. There will be a lot of "what if" on this question. I look forward to reading any response.

    Youíre correct, I donít use any of my ARís for bump in the night, 1911 for me but Iím in a two story and Iíd be shooting downward but my first line of defense are two 100 pound Shepherds that looove raw meat itís a scary thought missing your target, exiting your house and entering another home especially with children. Sometimes it really sucks living in the burbs.....


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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    It is a far more scary thought when considering three or four home invaders dealing with your wife and/or children. Quit worrying about over penetration, and start worrying about placing your shots to stop the attack. If you just have to explore the issue of penetration, try this place for starters:

    https://www.theboxotruth.com/

    OR, try a search on this forum. the subject has been beaten to death - endlessly.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXGREEK View Post
    Youíre correct, I donít use any of my ARís for bump in the night, 1911 for me but Iím in a two story and Iíd be shooting downward but my first line of defense are two 100 pound Shepherds that looove raw meat itís a scary thought missing your target, exiting your house and entering another home especially with children. Sometimes it really sucks living in the burbs.....


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    Even scarier is that you die because you're afraid to defend your own life.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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  5. #49
    New Member Array clinttho's Avatar
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    Bolt closed/safety off, with a 30rd mag of 77g black hills by the gun. Itís just how Iíve always had it, wouldnít want it different because Iím used to it.
    I used to keep a shotgun loaded police ready/safety off when I used one for home defense.

    Right now my two weapons of choice are a 9mm carbine loaded +1 with safety on and my 9mm pistol loaded +1.
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  6. #50
    New Member Array TXGREEK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clinttho View Post
    Bolt closed/safety off, with a 30rd mag of 77g black hills by the gun. Itís just how Iíve always had it, wouldnít want it different because Iím used to it.
    I used to keep a shotgun loaded police ready/safety off when I used one for home defense.

    Right now my two weapons of choice are a 9mm carbine loaded +1 with safety on and my 9mm pistol loaded +1.
    Iíve got 15+ 40 round Magpul magazines with 77 grain Black Hills. I buy from them often. I only run their rounds in my ARís for breaking them in. Ordered a couple Q Silencers for my Hog rifles.






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  7. #51
    Member Array oldbadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Even scarier is that you die because you're afraid to defend your own life.
    i saw nothing in my original post about AR rounds leaving the building or in the response from TXgreek that would indicate either or us would be afraid to defend our lives or family. I am not sure where that even came from. TXGREEK said in his post he relies on a 1911 as do I although I said nothing about my home defense plans originally. Why do you imply that if we are concerned about over penetration, a real thing, we are afraid....of anything?
    100% of home invasions occur......in someone's home.....usually without warning.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbadger View Post
    I cruised through this thread looking for a post that addressed the issue of an AR round "doing an Elvis" and leaving the building. That is, I am pretty sure that if fired into a bad guy and then through him into an outside wall it would go still go through an ordinary wall. I think the AR round is fast enough and heavy enough to penetrate an outside wall, unless brick or concrete block is used for the wall construction. I like the idea of keeping rounds that I am responsible for staying in the building if at all possible. I know that in this thread there will be conflicting views on this issue. There will be a lot of "what if" on this question. I look forward to reading any response.
    That ďwhat ifĒ is easily answered:

    Load selection, load selection, load selection.

    A load chosen primarily for an inside-the-dwelling use will be LESS likely to penetrate through multiple walls than most JHP pistol rounds, or most buckshot loads (looking at 1, 0, 00, and 000, in particular).

    A lighter-weight, thin jacketed varmint round (such as Nosler Ballistic Tips, V-Max, or Silvertips) in 55gr or lighter loads will normally fragment and come apart as soon as they hit anything...such as wallboard. Buckshot or pistol rounds...not so much.

    I do t know why people hear ďAR-15 for home protectionĒ and automatically assume that M193 or M855 will be used by default...
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  9. #53
    Member Array norm9278's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXGREEK View Post
    Donít forget the can unless you want everyone in the house especially you to go deaf


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    It's actually not as loud as a "normal" 9mm handgun. The reason I'm considering the change is that it's much shorter / easier to maneuver than the 870. The use of a "can" would somewhat negate that advantage. That and the fact that it has been as reliable as a hammer....

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  10. #54
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbadger View Post
    i saw nothing in my original post about AR rounds leaving the building or in the response from TXgreek that would indicate either or us would be afraid to defend our lives or family. I am not sure where that even came from. TXGREEK said in his post he relies on a 1911 as do I although I said nothing about my home defense plans originally. Why do you imply that if we are concerned about over penetration, a real thing, we are afraid....of anything?
    From his post: "...itís a scary thought missing your target, exiting your house and entering another home especially with children. Sometimes it really sucks living in the burbs....."
    OldChap and Bad Bob like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    I say this, not to insult anyone, but because I saw several instances of people not defending themselves, or their families, properly because they were frightened of what their use of a firearm would do to someone next door, and the result was lethal hesitation. They questioned themselves in their minds instead of acting to stop a lethal threat.

    We got this information from witnesses and physical evidence collected by the criminologists. It's not something that got put into the murder book, but it was easy to put two and two together and understand that the fear of shooting someone down the block took priority over survival. That critical fact seems to never come up in internet lore, or local gun shop tall tales. The only concern is overpenetration.

    He doesn't need defending, but I believe that is why @OldVet , and others, frequently state that people are afraid to defend themselves when they worry about the minor things..

    My advice to everyone who owns a gun and ever has that dark cloud of doubt cast over their thinking, would be to spend some time really researching the subject. Then perhaps get some training to help understand that in a self defense situation, the one absolutely critical issue is placing your shot(s) in exactly the required spot to stop the threat as quickly as possible.

    Oh and one more myth that really needs to end is that some calibers are more harmful to your hearing than others. Check the scientific data. All guns, even the mighty 22LR, will destroy your hearing. Indoors or out. Of course, the reality is that good hearing will do little good when they seal you up in a casket.
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  12. #56
    New Member Array TXGREEK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    From his post: "...itís a scary thought missing your target, exiting your house and entering another home especially with children. Sometimes it really sucks living in the burbs....."

    Stats prove your aim is not perfect when in an actual shoot out scenario and I bet I will not miss considering Iím more than capable considering the amount I practice in the setup field but my concern is for those that do not practice and ďwillĒ freak out when itís called upon for them to shoot someone, missing their targets is the least on their mind but with me the intruder will be the least in my mind, Iíll just treat them as a target and stop the threat. Scary thought bullets entering my house hitting a family member caused by another home owners inability to keep calm, just my 2cents. Good luck and be safe but most of all practice practice practice!


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  13. #57
    Senior Member Array FAS1's Avatar
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    My long guns for defense (rifle and shotgun) are in my safe, chambered with the safeties on. That is the direction my wife would go with her cell phone. She would stay there and call 911.

    My handgun is primary for me and is stored right next to my pillow, bolted to the bed frame.

    AR15 Home Defense-9d02021b35751959439b85b974622171.jpg
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    Glenn

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  14. #58
    Member Array SunTsu's Avatar
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    Tavor, loaded mag, empty chamber. Topped with an Omega 300
    Not my picture, but basically this + a light
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  15. #59
    Senior Member Array 380ACP's Avatar
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    Old Chap is nailing it on this.

    There is no perfect way to prevent over penetration.

    Iíd rather use the firearm that I feel most comfortable with in close quarters, that I feel natural aiming with just about any method...something that I have absolute confidence in no matter the situation. My hearing and armchair scenarios just donít play a huge factor in that.

    Side note - my house is brick and the walls, floors, and ceilings are all lined with concrete for some reason, so Iím not really worried about my 55 grain bullet. Iím not sure Iíd think differently were it built another way, however.


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    An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    The rules of gun safety still apply... know what's behind your target. If over penetration is a concern, think through the issue and realize there are ways to mitigate it.

    For home defense the resident has the advantage of knowing the floorplan and where others who live there are likely to be. Set the internet down for a few minutes and go walk through the house.

    Imagine it's nighttime; where are you, your spouse, the kids, and your guns? Where are the likely entry points for intruders? By the time you wake up and realize someone has broken in, where should you go first in order to protect your family and yourself? Where can you intercept the intruders? What are the best shooting lanes, and fatal funnels? How do you position yourself to cover those funnels without having family in your line of fire? Remember, sheetrock is like paper, so most interior walls are not effective cover for your family from your own bullets.

    Work your way through the house and consider all times of day for where people will be, where entry could happen, where the safer lanes of fire will be, and if there are any absolute no shoot directions. Be sure to consider up/down angles as well...shoot from kneeling at upper chest and a miss may completely go over rooms in the same direction.

    Depending on floorplan you may even choose to adjust room layout. My daughter once wanted to rearrange her room and put her bed's headboard against a wall adjacent to a long hallway. I told her no, because I wanted that hallway to be a free fire zone if I needed it, and as good as I am under pressure I may still miss, so I didn't want her close to that hallway.

    And as Cuda said, ammo selection is important. Light 223/5.56 varmint bullets become so un-aerodynamic after hitting anything they rapidly decelerate. FMJ will tumble and slow down after hitting anything too, but not as quickly as HP or soft point bullets. Smaller buckshot also does the same, which is why many people use #4 or #1 buck instead of 00. Using these kinds of ammo will minimize risk to neighbors compared to, say, a 12 ga slug that will just keep on trucking. Even conventional FMJ target loads for most pistols will penetrate multiple walls significantly further than 223 soft point bullets.
    Cuda66, OldChap and Pete63 like this.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth

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