Does Shot Placement Matter?

Does Shot Placement Matter?

This is a discussion on Does Shot Placement Matter? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Man Shot with 18 Bullets Leaves Hospital After Only 2 Days: Y'all see this? I'm posting this one here in "Defensive Carry Guns." Sure hope ...

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Thread: Does Shot Placement Matter?

  1. #1
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    Does Shot Placement Matter?

    Man Shot with 18 Bullets Leaves Hospital After Only 2 Days:

    Y'all see this?

    I'm posting this one here in "Defensive Carry Guns." Sure hope it hasn't already been posted elsewhere. I didn't find it.

    Gotta wonder what sort of gun the assailant was using and the type of ammunition he'd loaded in it.

    https://www.westernjournal.com/l/kim...2g8LERaSmCWAx8
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    Oops!

    Further investigation finds it.

    "Police say the shooter was 25-year-old Kwane Brown, who was making one last random stop during a three-state crime spree after shooting a woman in Georgia, robbing a gas station in Alabama, then parking in the French Quarter with a Glock 9mm."

    https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/i...6-036d7ee08888
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

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    Does Shot Placement Matter?
    The story is all the proof needed that shot placement matters.
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    The victim sounds like a good man. I'm glad he pulled through.

    Stories like this remind one why high levels of accuracy, at reasonable speed, remain very important.

    And serve as a reminder that a high capacity 9mm isn't necessarily the be-all end-all defensive firearm (ha ha ha, just kidding. . . sort of. . . not really).

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    I like shot placement, for sure...but any hit is better than a miss. You can find outliers for any circumstance...I tend to go more with median...that being, good hits are best, but any hit is good. Self defense scenarios are very dynamic...variables mean things don't always go as planned. I don't claim that this is the best plan...but it is the way I roll.
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    Does Shot Placement Matter?

    Most, and possibly all, of the rounds passed through a front windshield - which slowed them down quite a bit. Had the victim been out in the open, things might not have turned out so “well”.

    Agreed, he seems like a good (and very tough) guy. I hope the douchebag who shot him winds up in Angola for approximately forever.
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    ‘Of all the amazing elements of Smith’s life-or-death encounter, here's the most amazing: Despite striking Smith three times in the head, once in the face, multiple times in the chest and both arms, the bullets did not damage any major organs or blood vessels.

    “I remember thinking he needs to leave here and go the casino, because he's incredibly fortunate,” Stuke said.

    Stuke pointed to an ex-ray of Smith’s chest, where a bullet remains left behind, too dicey to remove. He showed how if the bullet had hit an inch or two differently in any direction, it could have penetrated Smith’s heart, lung or aorta. In another stroke of amazing luck, none of Smith’s head wounds penetrated his skull.‘

    Seems to me a reminder that good shot placement doesn’t guarantee anything.

    I figure maybe God has a use for this guy. I hope it’s something pleasant!
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    Similar, maybe even more telling story that some of you know: Sgt. Tim Gramins of the Skokie, IL, who is a police firearms instructor. Pulled over a gang banger who had just robbed a bank and who decided to shoot it out using two 9mm handguns. Gramins hit him 16 times with a Glock .45, six shots in supposed "kill zones," and the perp didn't go down until he had to stop shooting to reload one of his guns and Gramins scored a carefully aimed head shot. The perp still survived long enough to get to the ER, where he finally died.

    So in the worst cases, only a center of the head headshot may be decisive. Handguns don't have "knockdown power" like a rifle. Fortunately, most attackers go down, or go away, much easier than that.
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    I would be willing to bet the farm, if I was a bettin' man, that his 9mm was loaded with FMJ ammunition. I found two or three listings for the story. None of them listed where he was shot except 3 in the head - which did not penetrate the skull. Based on my father-in-law's experience in WWII, I would expect FMJ 9mm works no better today than it did back then. But all I have really is just speculation. The stories are remarkably incomplete. None, except the first one posted here, mention only 2 days in the hospital.

    All in all though, shot placement is, and probably always will be, King.
    Last edited by OldChap; May 16th, 2019 at 06:39 PM.
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    Shot placement counts that is a given. I would have to believe the ammo was FMJ which is still deadly but may not do as much damage as maybe +p hollow point. I also believe that by the grace of God Mr. Smith is with his family today. You just never know when evil will visit us or our families.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
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    .45, .357, .22 LR, .40, 9mm, .44 mag, and .50...in my oldpinion...and keeping in mind that only hits count.
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    The winning combination is hit first, keep pouring rounds into them with reasonable accuracy [ combat accuracy ]. I define combat accuracy as anywhere in the chest, which would suggest 12" laterally by 16" vertical. The smaller you can keep all rounds in that "rectangle" listed, the better IMO. Roughly C zone hits on an IPSC target or the -1 [ down one ] area of an IDPA target------or the C zone area of an IPSC target.

    Fairbairn/Sykes, documenting over 600 gun battles from Shanghai PD officers in the 30's noticed a proportionally high number of people hit in the lower abdomen tended to drop what they were holding. So there's that to consider also, where dropping shots into that region purposely or not.

    The formula of time/distance, amount of threat that can be seen will dictate if the above changes for me. There are examples of more than one shot to a mans heart that didn't stop them for 15-30 seconds. Take too much time looking for better accuracy than the scenario offers within the above extreme limitations could mean being struck yourself.
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    I would say that makes a good case for the importance of shot placement.
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    18 hits for 18 shots.... through a windshield. Too bad the victim didn't run him over.
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