Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you - Page 10

Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you

This is a discussion on Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 Why train for the fight that is never going to happen? That is exactly what you are doing if you train ...

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Thread: Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you

  1. #136
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Why train for the fight that is never going to happen?
    That is exactly what you are doing if you train open carry and carry concealed.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Hundreds of drawstrokes per day over a two-day period in the Florida heat do not lend themselves well to taking the training from concealment.
    That I do not understand Mike. If we are not practicing with what and how we carry in order to get "hundreds of drawstrokes "into a limited time frame what good do we get from it? Not being flippant at all and I hope I am coming across that way.
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  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    That is exactly what you are doing if you train open carry and carry concealed.
    Brownie's Florida classes and the snubby revolver class I took at TDI are the only ones I've ever taken using OC.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  5. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Why would I want to change your mind? It's already made up.
    Hmmm. That sounds like another straw man type answer.

    But im very open to anything that can give me something that I need. I’m simply asking you to demonstrate something that I cannot do with FS picture. There has to be something if it’s what you are claiming.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  6. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    That I do not understand Mike. If we are not practicing with what and how we carry in order to get "hundreds of drawstrokes "into a limited time frame what good do we get from it? Not being flippant at all and I hope I am coming across that way.
    Classes are training, not practice. My edc set-up is not designed for, nor does it facilitate hundreds of drawstrokes per day.
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  7. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Brownie's Florida classes and the snubby revolver class I took at TDI are the only ones I've ever taken using OC.
    Thats fine. But I find it difficult to get excited about a draw time when it’s done on command and from OC, especially if you carry concealed.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
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  8. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Now you are a psychic?
    No, that was elucidated clearly, it's was an observation made from "hundreds upon hundreds of scenarios" outcomes in Fof.. You must have missed that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rlggray View Post
    I said earlier in this thread that accuracy was more important to me than speed of presentation. Reason being, I carry a revolver 95% of the time, I can't afford to be wasting shots trying to be the fastest gun in the west. I need for my first shot to be a CNS shot if at all possible.

    I do alot of dry fire draw practice and am pretty smooth and quick, and if I ever have to do it for real, I'm gonna try to be smooth and quick but mostly accurate.
    You'll not have the time to make that cns shot in Fof before you're ventilated. If we found you did have that time, you'd be the first in hundreds upon hundreds of scenarios. If that's your fall back position, best of luck, hope you never have to find out the hard way.

    What's my fall back position?
    That I need for my first shot to be a CNS shot if at all possible?

    Should I have said that I need for my first shot to miss the BG if at all possible?

    I think the original question was, speed of presentation vs. accuracy : what is MOST important to you ? My answer was accuracy, why is that the wrong answer?

    I already said I do alot of dry fire draw practice and am pretty smooth and quick . By the way I also live fire draw at my outdoor range. I'm just saying I'm gonna put the emphasis on being as accurate as I can possibly be, if forced to do it for real.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Thats fine. But I find it difficult to get excited about a draw time when it’s done on command and from OC, especially if you carry concealed.
    Likewise. Times from concealment are the only ones I focus on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlggray View Post
    What's my fall back position?
    That I need for my first shot to be a CNS shot if at all possible?

    Should I have said that I need for my first shot to miss the BG if at all possible?

    I think the original question was, speed of presentation vs. accuracy : what is MOST important to you ? My answer was accuracy, why is that the wrong answer?

    I already said I do alot of dry fire draw practice and am pretty smooth and quick . By the way I also live fire draw at my outdoor range. I'm just saying I'm gonna put the emphasis on being as accurate as I can possibly be, if forced to do it for real.
    Got it,

  12. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Likewise. Times from concealment are the only ones I focus on.
    Fair enough. I just want to see a graduate of this technique be able to demonstrate to me something that cannot be achieved with training in the current , modern training facilities. Something that the MT is lacking in.

    So, if you can’t do it, I totally understand.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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    Well, it looks like the vast majority here place a premium on accuracy, with others desiring a balance. Appreciate all points of view, whether we agree or not.

    In the end, ya gotta do what’s best for you and your needs.
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    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  14. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Classes are training, not practice. My edc set-up is not designed for, nor does it facilitate hundreds of drawstrokes per day.
    Neither is mine but, why would I change holsters,gun and carry method for training? Training for what? My assumption is training for a fast draw stroke from open carry with a gun and a method I don't typically use so my question stands. Training for what outcome exactly that relates to self defense while carrying concealed in my everyday life?
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  15. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    That I do not understand Mike. If we are not practicing with what and how we carry in order to get "hundreds of drawstrokes "into a limited time frame what good do we get from it? Not being flippant at all and I hope I am coming across that way.
    There's two stages to a draw stroke. Acquiring and drawing once acquired.

    In CC courses, the first part, acquiring access to the gun is trained as the scoop draw. Once the hand is on the gun from acquiring, the movement from holster is exactly the same. The acquiring from CC in the hundreds per day draw strokes tires the students faster, and at the same time provides an added measure of safety concerns when students are reholstering hundreds of times a day.

    Most big name schools like front sight, gunsite hold open carry [ or some silly notion of concealed if you're wearing a camera tactical vest ] shooting courses, not from concealed. I suspect they have the same concerns that set my hair on fire with CC, and they don't run as many draws/reholsters per day as my courses.

    I regularly practice drawing from under a T shirt using the scoop draw [ the acquire ] and don't draw, I'm just practicing the acquire, the first phase of any draw stroke [ the act of acquiring ]. Play with both too, the acquire and draw to whatever skill in sufficient quantities in the past, not so much in the last few years. So OC in a class only misses the hundreds of acquires working from street garb, concealed.

    We've held several CC only courses over the years. The safety factor on hundreds upon hundreds of reholstering CC sets my hair on fire. I don't like it, and as the skill after acquire is the same, we don't spend much time on scoop draw CC, but of course in the CC courses, the scoop draw was used almost exclusively and the students were beat after the first day. They appreciated the training but the ibuprofin flowed freely that night at dinner.

    I'm not sure about you, but I've never taken a snub from the back pocket course, yet that's exactly where I carry mine. I just use the scoop draw to acquire from the back pocket. From concealed under a T, 1 second to acquire and fire. No one trained me to draw from my back pocket, but I was trained in how to acquire concealed using the scoop draw. Because I can't train with how I carry a snub formally, didn't mean I couldn't apply the same acquire, only slightly adjusted to still present and fire in just over a second, from concealed.

    Adding the acquire for me means adding another .4-.5 seconds to the draw stroke over open carry. Hope that answered your question to Mike. He'll likely chime in if he hasn't while I was writing this.

  16. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    Neither is mine but, why would I change holsters,gun and carry method for training? Training for what? My assumption is training for a fast draw stroke from open carry with a gun and a method I don't typically use so my question stands. Training for what outcome exactly that relates to self defense while carrying concealed in my everyday life?
    When the gear gets in the way of acquiring the skills being imparted, I change the gear. After repeated draws from concealment, the undergarment comes untucked, or the cover garment finds its way into the holster, just as examples. Those serve as big distractions from what the instructor is trying to impart. That became glaringly apparent to me during TDI's close quarters class, where repeatedly holstering while one's back or side was an integral part of range safety.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

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