Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you - Page 18

Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you

This is a discussion on Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm Absolutely agree. I worked with a guy Saturday evening who was a point shooter, had been for most of his life ...

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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Absolutely agree.

    I worked with a guy Saturday evening who was a point shooter, had been for most of his life and swore he was better doing it that way than aimed fire.

    However, he was not satisfied with his hits while moving. He was actually pretty good doing what he was doing, making hits on the half sized humanoid target with movement off the “x”.

    After having him him shift his focus to the front sight only, his groups were reduced to a nice tight 3 shot group within a paper plate placed on the target to reduce the target area. He was well pleased with this.

    Ya might want to call it a “ lights come on moment”.
    Back to the nice tight groups goalpost...
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  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    "having functional vision", exactly what the dictionary defines as "sighted".

    the confusion was started decades ago when fsp trainers writing articles would describe TF skills as "unsighted" fire. They were mistaken then, and they are mistaken now. They made the distinction between the two solely from whether one used their handgun sights or used below line of [ eye ] sight skills.
    No, what we are discussing is the use of the sights provided on the gun as the reference for the point of aim.

    You sir are muddying the waters by trying to avoid narrowing the perimeters to the scope of the discussion.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Back to the nice tight groups goalpost...
    No, they were not tight groups as one would expect with a slow fire target style....but the shots were reduced down to the area of the inner part of a paper plate from being somewhat scattered after he changed his focus with the same movement.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
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  5. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    No, what we are discussing is the use of the sights provided on the gun as the reference for the point of aim.

    You sir are muddying the waters by trying to avoid narrowing the perimeters to the scope of the discussion.
    I've made use of a gun with no sights on it, one doesn't need sights as a reference. At 1/2 and 3/4 hip, there's no visual que from the sights, let alone the pistol. It's still sighted fire, I'm not blind.

  6. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Its very simple to not click on a thread that you do not want to read, and kinda of silly to continue to read it and then complain about it.

    If you have nothing to contribute, then simply move along.

    That certainly should not not have taken 7 days to figure out.

    We are at almost 3400 views, up 600 from yesterday. Apparently there are others who are interested in the subject matter
    OK ...I apologize and i will butt out...Rock on...Hopefully you find some common ground.

  7. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    No, what we are discussing is the use of the sights provided on the gun as the reference for the point of aim.

    You sir are muddying the waters by trying to avoid narrowing the perimeters to the scope of the discussion.
    Several of us have tried for years to make it as clear to you as we can, without success, apparently.
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  8. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Yes, blurred front sight at point shoulder and beyond.

    Below point-shoulder, no, no front sight as a reference.
    And this makes sense. For a limited range, what you call “ point shoulder is the extension of the weapon out to where you can easily see it in your peripheral and using it as a reference relative to the target. This will work, especially if you cannot focus on the front sight due to vision issues. A perfectly acceptable solution to this issue.

    However, using the front sight to narrow the focus of the aim will always give better accuracy than a reference off the slide it muzzle.

    As for below the peripheral where seeing the gun for reference is impossible, then one would have to allow that the target is so close, that hitting the target is a given. But once again, we are getting in to a technique that is designed for extreme CQB, which is a very limited application.

    Certainly, I can see how the former would be useful and necessary for those with vision impairment, but the latter is pretty much something that everyone can do without special instruction, especially for anyone with a modicum of shooting experience.

    Therefore, where I can understand the need for this technique as an aide to those with vision impairments, I cannot see how this would benefit those who have a good grounding in the use of sight picture and trigger control.
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    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  9. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    I've made use of a gun with no sights on it, one doesn't need sights as a reference. At 1/2 and 3/4 hip, there's no visual que from the sights, let alone the pistol. It's still sighted fire, I'm not blind.
    So have I. By using the pistol in my field of view as a reference. I have very good vision.
    But using the front sight does allow for tighter shooting.
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    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  10. #264
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    And this makes sense. For a limited range, what you call “ point shoulder is the extension of the weapon out to where you can easily see it in your peripheral and using it as a reference relative to the target. This will work, especially if you cannot focus on the front sight due to vision issues. A perfectly acceptable solution to this issue.

    However, using the front sight to narrow the focus of the aim will always give better accuracy than a reference off the slide it muzzle.

    As for below the peripheral where seeing the gun for reference is impossible, then one would have to allow that the target is so close, that hitting the target is a given. But once again, we are getting in to a technique that is designed for extreme CQB, which is a very limited application.

    Certainly, I can see how the former would be useful and necessary for those with vision impairment, but the latter is pretty much something that everyone can do without special instruction, especially for anyone with a modicum of shooting experience.

    Therefore, where I can understand the need for this technique as an aide to those with vision impairments, I cannot see how this would benefit those who have a good grounding in the use of sight picture and trigger control.
    People with various vision issues likely represent 30% or more of the population. That would be roughly 75 million people in the US alone.

    Why did you misstate FSA as line of sight? Who was the TF instructor who "exposed" you to point shooting?>

  11. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    So have I. By using the pistol in my field of view as a reference. I have very good vision.
    But using the front sight does allow for tighter shooting.
    One can use the front sight very effectively without it being the point of focus.
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  12. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    One can use the front sight very effectively without it being the point of focus.
    Brian Enos describes it as his "type 2" focus.
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  13. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by mck1975 View Post
    TO ME, it doesn't matter how fast you pull the firearm if you can't hit what your target is.
    But if your draw is slow and the other guy can shoot, you are in trouble.
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  14. #268
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    So, I’ll leave it with this, as I think that we have gone as far as this will ever go.

    I am not disparaging anyone for doing what they feel is best for them. Everyone has their own issues and reasons for doing what they do, which I think is great.

    But at this time, I have not seen any thing demonstrated by threat focused shooting techniques that give me, or allow me anything better than the use of the FRONT SIGHT on the weapon allows me to do with the same speed and greater accuracy potential.

    And, I do believe this the the reason that the MT is still by far the dominant method of combat shooting today, and that threat focused techniques are small pockets of shooters with a particular need that does not allow them to utilize the front sighted fire techniques.

    As always, do what is best for you.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
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  15. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    But if your draw is slow and the other guy can shoot, you are in trouble.
    Good point...And the other guy in most cases has already got that step out of the way.
    AzQkr, mck1975 and matthew03 like this.

  16. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker95 View Post
    I am ambidextrous

    It has nothing to to with your dominant hand.

    RIFLES: The Off-Hand Shot
    Check out the CR-12 - wilkinsontactical.com

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