Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you - Page 23

Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you

This is a discussion on Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by AzQkr Someone long ago came up with the arbitrary number of 1.5 seconds to first shot reaction time [ or less ] ...

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Thread: Speed of presentation vs accuracy: What is the most important to you

  1. #331
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Someone long ago came up with the arbitrary number of 1.5 seconds to first shot reaction time [ or less ] being acceptable. Many of the major training facilities have adopted that standard as their students goal before the training ends.

    Many of the old masters believed anything over 1 second draw and fire time was unacceptable. One even wrote to be considered a master gun handler, .50 seconds was the time to strive for [ personally I think that's a stretch to have people think you haven't mastered the gun if you can't deliver a round in that time but it's what he wrote decades ago ].

    Speed of presentation is but one component of the equation of responding with a pistol in a DGU. Accuracy is another component. Both should be practiced in sufficient quantities.
    My average time of one shot on two paper plates that are 6 feet apart from a distance of 10 feet during yesterday’s practice session which consisted of 11 reps for 22 rounds fired was 1.64 seconds.

    When I push it to achieve sub second accuracy I still hit the 12x16 silhouette, but miss the plate, lol.

    A couple of of times I screwed the pooch on the draw by not defeating the cover garment and ran in to a 2.16 draw for two hits, but I struggled thru it to complete the action because there are no do overs in real life.

    My advice to people who who I am teaching is to never stop because you screwed up and try to do it over, even if it means running up the clock. Instead add movement while you are recovering and continue, because there are no do overs when it’s shtf in reality.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  2. #332
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Accuracy is about placing bullets or shot clouds on time on target, within range. And that's my final answer.
    G-man*, M1911A1 and bmcgilvray like this.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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  3. #333
    New Member Array Ken40s&w's Avatar
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    Now that there is funny
    Quote Originally Posted by subhuman View Post
    I depend on accuracy because I'm slower than a herd of turtles charging through peanut butter in feburary
    The very best tip I ever got was from Jerry Miculek , the greatest hand gunner maybe ever. He teaches the perfect triangle. Both arms and hands centered in front of your nose. Look at the target. Never take your eyes off your target, and bring the handgun sites up onto it. “Let” the hand gun line up with you. Head straight up not leaning with a locked elbow. Try it. Takes practice, but once you master it, it will definitely improve speed and accuracy. Watch him on youtube.
    ETXhiker and SAXDM9 like this.

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  5. #334
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doghandler View Post
    Accuracy is about placing bullets or shot clouds on time on target, within range. And that's my final answer.
    It just depends on where you find yourself in the curve.
    Doghandler likes this.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  6. #335
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Truth.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
    Doghandler
    We have deep thinkers and stinkers in this group that could come up with a solution...
    welder516
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  7. #336
    Member Array pscyclepath's Avatar
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    There are no shot timers in fights, other than the one that the Death Angel carries, and he always has his finger on the button.

    You do not have time to miss... And you are legally accountable for every single round or pellet in your weapon. You've got to be accurate above all, and be quick about it.
    M1911A1 and ETXhiker like this.

  8. #337
    Distinguished Member Array druryj's Avatar
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    Awareness, decision making, movement, presentation and delivering well aimed fire on target all goes hand in hand.

    He who gets the first real hit on the other will usually win the fight.

    If the other isn’t a very determined fighter that is. You need to be determined to win regardless. Fight to live; take time to heal later.


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  9. #338
    Senior Member Array M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken40s&w View Post
    Now that there is funny The very best tip I ever got was from Jerry Miculek , the greatest hand gunner maybe ever. He teaches the perfect triangle. Both arms and hands centered in front of your nose. Look at the target. Never take your eyes off your target, and bring the handgun sites up onto it. “Let” the hand gun line up with you. Head straight up not leaning with a locked elbow. Try it. Takes practice, but once you master it, it will definitely improve speed and accuracy. Watch him on youtube.
    I learned a different body-arm-hand position ("Modified Weaver"), but the concept of looking at the target, and bringing the sights up to the eye, is common to both.

    The other thing that's common to both is the absolute need for lots of practice, as well as daily continuing practice too.


    The truth is that any truly practical shooting position, that you practice consistently and do well, is the "right" one to use.
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  10. #339
    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    I am sure if someone saw me out in the wild practicing they would think I am a nutcase. Laying on the ground on my back, on my stomach, rolling and drawing and shooting, right hand, left hand you name it. It gets my wife to laugh for certain. I typically shoot that way at a paper plate stapled to a silhouette target that covers the triangle between nose and nipples. I practice drawing and shooting with just my left hand as well. It doesn't take a lot of ammo, most days half a box is a pretty good workout and it helps me stay limber and keeps me used to fighting from the ground which I believe is a likely place I might end up. I think we spend too much energy on assuming we will have time and distance on our side to worry about stances and sight pictures, etc. Train for those things some certainly but, I believe we should spend more energy on ugly and fast and off balance. In all the armed citizen responses I have watched I have yet to see the smooth ready, push-out, fire, retract and head swivel I see on training videos.

    I do take long distance (25 yards for the 642) shots as well from more conventional positions and I do take even longer shots with the 1911 but, what I consider my prime "fighting gun" is the 642 carried appendix. Appendix means fastest access, most discrete access and most available access in all positions and that short barrel clears the holster really fast. I don't always acquire sights and I don't always even get the gun rotated upright. Its more an extension of my hand. I often just shoot when it clears the holster or from a retention position and never see the gun at all.

    I have tried having a 3:00 to 4:00 belt gun as my only gun but, it is just plain slow for me compared to the snub. Now, in some extended gun battle I would want something different of course but, for that behind the curve, quick and discrete response I have had to accept that for me the airweight 38 is superior for the task at hand.
    So, speed and accuracy go hand in hand.

  11. #340
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    I don’t think speed of presentation and accuracy go “hand in hand”, they’re almost like opposites, aren’t they? My goal is to bring the two together as best I can through practice and study. I envy the heck outta G-man’s 1.6 sec time for two shots on separated targets. I’ll be grateful when I get that time for two shots on even one target. I’ll keep striving from there.

    I practice each component separately and practice them together. I hope Santa brings me a shot timer this year. It’ll vastly disappoint me if he does though, when I see my times more often. Still, measurement is the only way to mark progress.
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