An often missed point about the Glock grip angle - Page 2

An often missed point about the Glock grip angle

This is a discussion on An often missed point about the Glock grip angle within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just to be clear, the subject is not whether itís a good or bad gun compared to others, or whether the trigger is preferable to ...

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Thread: An often missed point about the Glock grip angle

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Just to be clear, the subject is not whether itís a good or bad gun compared to others, or whether the trigger is preferable to others or not.
    The subject is about how the grip angle aides in front sight acquisition for CQB style of shooting as compared to others that are considered more ergonomically desirable, especially from the draw.

    Edit to add; not trying to curb conversation, but just to make sure it doesnít evolve in to a this is better than that gun, and keep it in focus.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Bryan, glad to see you're enjoying that CZ75! CZs are starting to multiply around here, with 2 rimfire rifles and recently a second CZ pistol.

    To G-man's point, I think much has been made of the Glock grip angle, but even as a long-time 1911 shooter I can pick up my G23 and get quick, effective his on target. It's a difference, to be sure, but rather a non-issue in my mind.

    I think Bryan's target exercise would be fun to repeat for those who have a Glock and another similarly-sized pistol of a different make or design. Load up 8-10 rounds in each, and on signal from holster (or low ready) draw and shoot to slide lock, in 5 seconds max. Target and distance aren't critical; paper plates or a silhouette target and 10-15 yards would be fine, they just need to be the same for both. This isn't a marksmanship test, it's to show any difference in how you, the shooter, accommodate different grip angles in a practical drill.

    I'd run out and do that today but for the fact the public lands are off limits for shooting, due to the extreme fire restrictions we've been under all summer.
    A test like that is exactly what I would suggest. I have thus developed this viewpoint from doing just that very thing, and would find it interesting to see what others conclude, but I would suggest firing from the draw, one shot, reholster, and repeat, going as fast as you can pick up the sight and pull the trigger.

    When you shoot multiples from the draw, it skews things because you are giving yourself time to adjust your wrist and bring the Glock in to a more natural sight picture focus, which I think happens naturally.

    Shooting one per draw, I believe highlights the grip angle advantage that allows for quick front sight pick up that it gives.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Gotta agree.

    I dislike Glocks, but the grip angle has nothing to do with the reasons for my lack regard for the pistol. A good afternoon session with a Glock at the range ought to banish any notions that it cannot be used effectively. If it continues to matter afterward then an honest examination must turn inward, to what is between one's ears.

    I'm a fan of CZ 75s. On an occasion I ran an informal fun test all afternoon, pitting the CZ 75BD against the Glock 17 kept here. I like the CZ better for my purposes, but the Glock is fully capable.

    CZ target on left. Glock Target on right. Can't recall distance, but was probably 10 yards. Rapid fire, faster than I generally like to shoot.





    The Glock grip angle is remarkably similar to that of another famous 9mm pistol. In fact it was the first handgun design ever chambered for 9mm. There was no hue and cry about its grip angle except by quibbling nitpickers. It was generally valued as well-balanced and "point-able" in its day.

    For plain ol rapid fire, I would prefer the steel frame CZ 75 any day of the week.
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  5. #19
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    The ergonomics of the grip was one of several major issues I have with glocks but if it works out for someone else that's great.

    My biggest issue with glocks is that they started the whole plastic pistol trend which caused a number of manufacturers to drop all metal pistols and greatly impaired further development of new models that are DA/SA and all metal. Manufacturers are of going to promote plastic pistols as they have a higher profit margin on them as plastic will always be cheaper then metal but will never be equal.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by m5215 View Post
    The ergonomics of the grip was one of several major issues I have with glocks but if it works out for someone else.
    And to that point, which is exactly what is often stated as the main reason for not liking the gun, I would have to ask if you have really ran it in a CQB style of shooting? I mean, REALLY ran it?

    Not to say you have or have not, but I find that many people just donít like the angle, because it doesnít pass the feel test or the aim, close your eyes and open them test, and many other things people convey.

    The thing is, I feel the same way. I much prefer and enjoy 1911ís, BHPís and the CZ 75ís over the Glock, especially for pure shooting enjoyment and accuracy.

    However, I have found out, that when doing timed drills from the draw, that nothing is faster for that first accurate shot than the Glock because of that grip angle that so many hate, because it places that front sight high and clear for an easy pick up.
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  7. #21
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    Just personal preference, but I like a gun that if I look at a target with the gun down, close my eyes and "aim" the gun with my eyes closed and then open my eyes, the sights are pretty close to being on target for me. I figure in a real situation, I may not see the sights at all, I may even be point shooting, so I want to have a secondary "ergonomic sight alignment." If I do see the sights, the idea in the OP of getting quicker sight alignment by having the sights aiming high doesn't make sense to me. If I want to do that, I can intentionally raise up the front of the gun slightly. I would rather have the sights naturally in alignment when I fire the gun, not when I am trying to acquire the sights.

    And I know this is thread is about grip angle, but if the Glock had a great trigger, I might accept the grip angle, but it doesn't. If it had a manual safety option, I would also consider it, but it doesn't. Instead, it has a "safety trigger" which I think is an oxymoron. It's why "Glock leg" is a thing.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Just personal preference, but I like a gun that if I look at a target with the gun down, close my eyes and "aim" the gun with my eyes closed and then open my eyes, the sights are pretty close to being on target for me. I figure in a real situation, I may not see the sights at all, I may even be point shooting, so I want to have a secondary "ergonomic sight alignment." If I do see the sights, the idea in the OP of getting quicker sight alignment by having the sights aiming high doesn't make sense to me. If I want to do that, I can intentionally raise up the front of the gun slightly. I would rather have the sights naturally in alignment when I fire the gun, not when I am trying to acquire the sights.

    And I know this is thread is about grip angle, but if the Glock had a great trigger, I might accept the grip angle, but it doesn't. If it had a manual safety option, I would also consider it, but it doesn't. Instead, it has a "safety trigger" which I think is an oxymoron. It's why "Glock leg" is a thing.
    I think you are talking about target shooting vs CQB style shooting, in which a flash sight picture is the method used with the focus on the front sight only.

    And its an absolute fact that you will not see your sight if you do not train to do so.

    Glock leg is an ignorance issue, not a gun issue.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think you are talking about target shooting vs CQB style shooting, in which a flash sight picture is the method used with the focus on the front sight only.

    And its an absolute fact that you will not see your sight if you do not train to do so.
    Well, that is your shooting dogma, not mine. I have trained in all kinds of shooting and I am all about front sight focus unless I am point shooting. You are trying to make what works for you the rule for everyone. It isn't.
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Well, that is your shooting dogma, not mine. I have trained in all kinds of shooting and I am all about front sight focus unless I am point shooting. You are trying to make what works for you the rule for everyone. It isn't.
    Negative Ghost Rider; I started a thread to share my thoughts opinions and findings.

    If you donít agree, Iím not trying to twist your arm. You are free to buzz off.
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  11. #25
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    I'm a 20+ year Glock owner of numbers of them in various models and four different calibers. Still own five of them and have carried a Model 19 over the years more than any other handgun until the last three years.

    I don't mind the Glock grip angle, but I hate the "hump".

    When I bought my first Glock 43 and took it home I immediately bonded with it and even more so after the first 200-round range session. It took just a minute of thinking before I realized why. Looking at it in the palm of my hand it was evident why it felt so natural to me. The "hump" on the G43 fits neatly in the palm of my hand rather than on the heel of my hand like my G19s. And I have never grown accustomed to another handgun as fast as I did the G43. After a week of heavy range sessions and wringing out that first G43 I went back to the same shop and bought another one.

    In his video Larry Vickers tried, and failed, to convince me that Shield is better than my G43.

    In guns, as in life in general, there is rarely just one way. Try all you can and then use what works best for you.
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  12. #26
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    A Glock 19 was my first semi auto pistol. I wound up buying every 9mm model that Glock made, and then because of being unmercifully hounded by my fellow forum members here - I bought a G42. I never had any problem lining up the sights on any of my 9mm Glocks, nor a problem with follow up shots. Right out of the box, the little 42 shot the center out of targets out to 10 yards. And thanks to my fellow forum members, she was named Skinny Minnie because the 26 was already universally known as "baby" Glock.

    Then my right hand problems happened and I had to quit shooting 9mm. It was then that I began to try various brands of .380 and also .22lr - each with its own "grip angle". The only one that has consistently given me major challenges in quickly lining up the sights is the Ruger Mark IV Lite.

    The others, at first draw and point didn't point as naturally for me as the Glock but didn't take more than a couple of times drawing and pointing to adapt.

    Yes, there are some guns with grips that fit your hand like they were custom designed just for you. I do not own any of those although I have held them. There is A LOT MORE to a gun that you will shoot and enjoy and become proficient with than "grip angle."..................In my personal experience, that is.
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  13. #27
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    I shot glock side by side with M&P's and others. The latter were more natural and accurate for me, including testing from low ready for HD type scenarios. That made up my mind. It's a personal preference. I would probably say the glock angle could be more accurate IF people like me that might not be a natural take to it, shoot enough and get the muscle memory, since the wrist roll/lock forward is probably better to control muzzle flip for follow up accuracy. But, the average Joe carrier/shooter like me just doesn't shoot enough to get muscle memory, if it isn't already natural ergonomics in the first place. Of course different story for all the john wicks here!

  14. #28
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    The Glock grip angle has never really been a big issue for me. If Iíve been shooting my 1911ís and Sigs a lot and then shoot my Glocks, I do have to lower the gun a bit to get on target. But when Iíve been shooting my Glocks a lot, I find I donít have to do that - they point naturally for me. I guess itís what you get used to.

    And I can definitely see your point, g-man, about the angle actually being an advantage in CQB. Never thought about that before.

  15. #29
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    If I were a new shooter, I would probably look hard at a Glock.

    But since I have been shooting Browning Babies (1911ís and Hi Powers) for 45 years, my ďnaturalĒ grip on a Glock has the front sight well above the rear sights. Can I rock my wrists forward and align the sights? Certainly. Will I remember to do that when the flag flies? Probably not.

    There are many pistol makers and various grip angles. I chose what works for me.

    But then I drive US made trucks and hunt with a Winchester Model 12. Lord, Iím a fudd.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhl6493 View Post
    The Glock grip angle has never really been a big issue for me. If Iíve been shooting my 1911ís and Sigs a lot and then shoot my Glocks, I do have to lower the gun a bit to get on target. But when Iíve been shooting my Glocks a lot, I find I donít have to do that - they point naturally for me. I guess itís what you get used to.

    And I can definitely see your point, g-man, about the angle actually being an advantage in CQB. Never thought about that before.
    Thank you sir for getting the jest of what I was getting at.
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