Otpics ready sub-compact choices?

Otpics ready sub-compact choices?

This is a discussion on Otpics ready sub-compact choices? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have some Sig RX compacts. Great guns, but just too big at times. So I'd been waiting for the 365XL optics ready pistol, but ...

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    Member Array jejb's Avatar
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    Otpics ready sub-compact choices?

    I have some Sig RX compacts. Great guns, but just too big at times. So I'd been waiting for the 365XL optics ready pistol, but it's out of the running because you lose the rear sight when you put an optic on it. I've been carrying red dots for a couple of years and know they are great, but not 100% reliable. If I pull the gun and red dot is not on for whatever reason, I want good irons sights there to work with.

    Seems the Hellcat OPS may fit the bill for me. Sights stay in place, and the front one looks like a very nice one. But before I get serious about chasing one down, just thought I'd start a post asking if there are any other candidates in this size/capacity of small non-single stack handguns. Or if there is some concern about the Hellcat OPS.

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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Personally, I just think the Hellcat is too new. I would wait until it gets some time and reviews on it. The first runs of the P365 has some sporadic issues. You just never know.

    If I really wanted and optic on a smaller gun, Galloway Precision will mill slides for four different popular models of optics on a pretty long list of mini 9mm's, for $125-$135. the examples they show on their site still have the iron sights, some even tritium sights. I will bet they could probably do it on any gun you would choose and there are other companies who could do the same.

    Personally, for a small gun, I just want a night sight that has good daytime visibility. Something that keeps the gun small and always works. But that's just me.
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    Member Array Big Western's Avatar
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    Both of the red dots that fit the P 365XL have built in rear sights- the Sig Romeo Zero and the Shield Rmsc.

    Also, if you're familiar with the Sig P 320 X Compact, Sig makes a version called the P 320 Professional Compact for the LE market, that unlike the X Compact does NOT have the rear sight attached to the optics plate. https://www.provenoutfitters.com/sig-p320-professional-compact-x-ray-sights-9mm

    The CZ P10s doesn't have the rear sight attached to the optics plate.


    There are good reasons many of us won't buy a new Springfield Armory firearm, and it starts with their CEO Dennis Reese who in 1989 was accused by the U.S. government of being involved in a conspiracy:

    "
    The indictment, returned Thursday by a federal grand jury in Alexandria, Va., accused Lopez of conspiring with Dennis J. Reese, president of Springfield Armory, Inc., to defraud the foreign military sales program operated by the Pentagon.
    Reese, who pleaded guilty last month to conspiracy and filing false statements, also bought Lopez a $4,722 Rolex watch at the colonel's request."
    https://www.deseret.com/1989/3/17/18...salvador-sales

    The other big scandal involving Springfield Armory is their campaign donations to Illinois state anti-gun politicians, one of whom allegedly then gave campaign money to the rookie democrat who beat a very pro-gun republican- a guy who took to court an assault weapons ban law, and who has been a very vocal fighter against gun control in Illinois.
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/sp...s-politicians/
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ar...y-springfield/
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    Member Array jejb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Personally, I just think the Hellcat is too new. I would wait until it gets some time and reviews on it. The first runs of the P365 has some sporadic issues. You just never know.
    Understood. I have been watching, and they seem to not have the 365ish issues thus far. Actually, they are playing off the 365 issues in their ads saying something like "we didn't give up reliability to increase capacity".
    If I really wanted and optic on a smaller gun, Galloway Precision will mill slides for four different popular models of optics on a pretty long list of mini 9mm's, for $125-$135. the examples they show on their site still have the iron sights, some even tritium sights. I will bet they could probably do it on any gun you would choose and there are other companies who could do the same.
    Yep, that's a thought too. Ends up costing a lot more as I'd also need to buy tritium suppressor height sights. And it also voids the warranty on modified parts. There is also the worry about having to defend a modified gun, should it ever have to be deployed. All in all, I prefer stock guns if I find one that fits the bill.
    Personally, for a small gun, I just want a night sight that has good daytime visibility. Something that keeps the gun small and always works. But that's just me.
    Would be nice. I miss my perfect vision. But just something most of us have to deal with as we age.

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Walther makes an optics-equipped PPS, and S&W has an optics capable Shield...
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    Member Array jejb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Walther makes an optics-equipped PPS, and S&W has an optics capable Shield...
    Thanks. As I said above, non-single stack. We already own PPS's and Shield's. Good carry guns, but I want more capacity and the resulting larger grips radius.

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    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jejb View Post
    Understood. I have been watching, and they seem to not have the 365ish issues thus far. Actually, they are playing off the 365 issues in their ads saying something like "we didn't give up reliability to increase capacity".

    Yep, that's a thought too. Ends up costing a lot more as I'd also need to buy tritium suppressor height sights. And it also voids the warranty on modified parts. There is also the worry about having to defend a modified gun, should it ever have to be deployed. All in all, I prefer stock guns if I find one that fits the bill.

    Would be nice. I miss my perfect vision. But just something most of us have to deal with as we age.
    I don't see a jury ever convicting someone for making a gun more accurate with a better sight. If it happened we would know about it. How many people defend their homes with an AR, AK or shotgun that have sights on them? How many millions of people use night sights on their Pistols? It's not something to worry about.

    Yes it will be more expensive to have a slide milled but you'd get the gun you actually want as apposed to settling on one simply because it comes pre milled.
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    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jejb View Post
    Yep, that's a thought too. Ends up costing a lot more as I'd also need to buy tritium suppressor height sights.
    I've had two slides milled by Galloway for Shield RMS and RMSc optics. Both of those optics are low enough to allow co-witnessing with stock height iron sights on my guns. I didn't need to install suppressor height sights, and would recommend against it if installing Shield optics because suppressor height sights would be too tall and obscure too much of the window, IMO.

    I ended up with optics on the guns I'm used to and confident in, without having to buy a new gun, and could mostly keep using the same holsters too (kydex only required cutting optics notches with a Dremel).
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jejb View Post
    Would be nice. I miss my perfect vision. But just something most of us have to deal with as we age.
    I'm with you there. I'm 67 and I just recovered from cataract surgery and I still have vision issues. But having been a target shooter years ago, all I need is a front sight I can see in any light. That's much more about shooting fundamentals (sight picture/focus control) than it is about visual acuity. Don't get me wrong, I think red dots might be nice, but I don't want to depend on anything that has a chance of failing. I tried lasers for a while and that wasn't my cuppa tea either.
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    VIP Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    JMF552 Galloway does NOT leave the nubs in the mill cut that really lock the optic to the slide like other do like factory optic ready models .

    I'm 64 wear trifocals right handed left eye dominate and have a p320XC that now and waiting on a 6moa Romeo 1 pro that I will practice with but I I've never found focusing on the sights to be that important for defensive shooting . I used a Flash Sigh Picture shooting style for 33 years + and a good sight focus is not needed like for target shooting . I have some 9x15 silhouettes that's easy to keep and mag full of 40sw from my p320c or m&p 4.25 quickly fired rounds on that steel at 25 yards with no hard focus on sights.. We have a m&p core and I used a 8" DW revolver with a 2moa dot for 41 years . A ultra dot 1" 2moa now so dots are not hard for me to use . For guys that ware bi , tri or progressive lens in your glasses use your distance part of your lens.

    Today you can even buy a SCCY pistol that can come with a CT cts-1500 dot optic but it really looks like a Shield's basic dot optic like used on m&p shield or p365 , maybe the XD too . All for 350 bucks on ether there 380 or 9mm model .

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    VIP Member Array MMinSC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I think red dots might be nice, but I don't want to depend on anything that has a chance of failing.
    I like having a RDS but you don't really need to depend on them. If it fails, the irons are right there and co-witnessed.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    I like having a RDS but you don't really need to depend on them. If it fails, the irons are right there and co-witnessed.
    I get that, but if the irons are not tritium, they won't do you much good at night. If they are tritium, you don't really need anything else if you have the fundamentals down. And if they fail, realizing it and mentally switching to a different sight picture could cost you time. Again, I think they may be handy, but absolutely not necessary.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    Member Array jejb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I get that, but if the irons are not tritium, they won't do you much good at night. If they are tritium, you don't really need anything else if you have the fundamentals down.
    Iron sights are very fuzzy to me. I can use them, but groupings spread and speeds go down. Red dots just make me more accurate and make shooting more enjoyable. I shoot twice a week and enjoy being as accurate as I can. I've got plenty of tritium sights, and even some of the TFX Pro's that are FO and tritium. Great sights. But not as good as a red dot for *me*.
    And if they fail, realizing it and mentally switching to a different sight picture could cost you time. Again, I think they may be handy, but absolutely not necessary.
    Depends on how you practice. For me, when I practice draw my red dot equipped EDC (which I do a lot), I look for the front sight first. If the dot is on, which it almost always is of course, I just naturally pick it up. That way, if the optic is not on, I'm already on plan B.
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    Member Array jejb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    I like having a RDS but you don't really need to depend on them. If it fails, the irons are right there and co-witnessed.
    Yep, which is the point of this thread. I have to have good backup irons.
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    Member Array jejb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    I don't see a jury ever convicting someone for making a gun more accurate with a better sight. If it happened we would know about it. How many people defend their homes with an AR, AK or shotgun that have sights on them? How many millions of people use night sights on their Pistols? It's not something to worry about.
    Well, I do choose to worry about it. But I understand it does not bother everyone.

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