My dream pocket gun. Springfield, are you listening? - Page 2

My dream pocket gun. Springfield, are you listening?

This is a discussion on My dream pocket gun. Springfield, are you listening? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Once again, those silly laws of physics interfere with my fantasies. For those of you who suggest a revolver, doesn't the width present a problem? ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member
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    Once again, those silly laws of physics interfere with my fantasies.

    For those of you who suggest a revolver, doesn't the width present a problem? I would think that the cylinder would be so wide that it would make concealment an issue.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Well, everyone has their dreams, and it don’t cost nothin.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
    -Jeff Cooper

    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Once again, those silly laws of physics interfere with my fantasies.

    For those of you who suggest a revolver, doesn't the width present a problem? I would think that the cylinder would be so wide that it would make concealment an issue.
    Heck, no. In fact, I find a revolver easier to conceal, since it’s round instead of angular–blends in better.

    But I’m also more round, instead of angular, so...

    Personally, a J-frame in .357 is a pretty solid “chips down, in your face” pistol, imho.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Man, you guys are party poopers!





    But seriously, I do dream of a tiny pistol with some real power. Keep in mind that this is not a "fun day at the range" gun by ANY means. No, it's a last-ditch, save your life, "Get Sasquatch off me" gun. If you were in a dire situation and the adrenaline is flowing hard, you're panicked, and your very life is on the line, what would you rather have? This, or an LCP .380? Be honest.

    I'm not being argumentative at all. Each one of you has valid points and concerns. I'm really just thinking out loud.
    No common service caliber sidearm has “real power.” A slow moving .45 out of a sub-3 inch barrel even less so. Look up the “Why one officer carries 145 rounds on duty” article and you will see just how little “power” the .45 (or any sidearm) has against “Sasquatch.”

    WHERE you hit matters MUCH more than WHAT you hit with. Thus I strongly disagree with the “carried a lot but shot very little” ethos. If you’re going to carry it in public, you owe your fellow citizens some proficiency with that sidearm, and that requires practice. If you’re not going to practice with it regularly, it’s of little use.

    As I’ve said before, sometimes you have to stop trying to fit 10 gallons of manure into a 5 gallon bucket. Otherwise known as...too much of a good thing.
    Carry a sidearm always. Be able to put shots into the torso and then head, if needed. The rest is much less important.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Once again, those silly laws of physics interfere with my fantasies.

    For those of you who suggest a revolver, doesn't the width present a problem? I would think that the cylinder would be so wide that it would make concealment an issue.
    As always, it depends.

    If you have deep pockets, skinny legs, and wear untucked shirts, a snub is ideal.

    I have regular pockets in business dress, thick thighs, and tuck my shirt. Snub is a no go. Even my LCPs print, but in a wallet holster they resemble a phone or wallet. A snub in my pocket is VERY obvious.
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    Carry a sidearm always. Be able to put shots into the torso and then head, if needed. The rest is much less important.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    No common service caliber sidearm has “real power.” A slow moving .45 out of a sub-3 inch barrel even less so. Look up the “Why one officer carries 145 rounds on duty” article and you will see just how little “power” the .45 (or any sidearm) has against “Sasquatch.”

    WHERE you hit matters MUCH more than WHAT you hit with. Thus I strongly disagree with the “carried a lot but shot very little” ethos. If you’re going to carry it in public, you owe your fellow citizens some proficiency with that sidearm, and that requires practice. If you’re not going to practice with it regularly, it’s of little use.

    As I’ve said before, sometimes you have to stop trying to fit 10 gallons of manure into a 5 gallon bucket. Otherwise known as...too much of a good thing.
    I still don’t buy in to that story. If he is carrying 145 rounds, he doesn’t have much room for other essentials on that duty belt, unless he is a fat ass, which , would be a bigger issue than anything else. I also would question whether or not his agency policy would even allow that, as most have uniform code standards.

    Also, context is everything. I will agree that no duty caliber is as powerful as a rifle ( that’s pretty much 101), I am not deceived in to thinking that caliber does not have inherent advantages.

    And I say this as someone who carry’s both a 380 in the pocket at times with total confidence, but I am not self deceiving myself in to thinking that it will allow the luxury of less than perfect shot placement effectiveness as will a higher caliber.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-man* View Post
    I still don’t buy in to that story. If he is carrying 145 rounds, he doesn’t have much room for other essentials on that duty belt, unless he is a fat ass, which , would be a bigger issue than anything else. I also would question whether or not his agency policy would even allow that, as most have uniform code standards.

    Also, context is everything. I will agree that no duty caliber is as powerful as a rifle ( that’s pretty much 101), I am not deceived in to thinking that caliber does not have inherent advantages.

    And I say this as someone who carry’s both a 380 in the pocket at times with total confidence, but I am not self deceiving myself in to thinking that it will allow the luxury of less than perfect shot placement effectiveness as will a higher caliber.
    He carries some 33 round mags in his vest, IIRC. He also carries a G26 backup.

    You can call him a liar. I’m not. His story is well documented.

    I also think a more powerful caliber is, well, more powerful. But I think the differences are not as great as some want to believe.
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    Carry a sidearm always. Be able to put shots into the torso and then head, if needed. The rest is much less important.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Okay, so my interest in a smaller gun for pocket carry has given me an inspiration. I don't want to carry a .380 (no caliber wars, please), and even most subcompact 9mm pistols seem a bit large for the pocket.

    Sadly, since no one seems to make the exact pocket gun I'm looking for, I decided to do a mock-up.

    Here's my idea, as compared to an XDS 45.



    Here are the specs I have in mind:

    About 3.8 inches in HEIGHT (since it's usually the grip and not the barrel that hinders concealability).

    Well under six inches in LENGTH.

    About 0.90 inches in WIDTH.


    That's about the size of the Sig P290, one of my all time favorite pocket pistols.

    It's 6+1 of 9mm, which I personally would prefer over 4+1 of 45 acp out of a 3" barrel and a 2 finger grip.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My dream pocket gun. Springfield, are you listening?-20200122_090838_1579706322819.jpg  

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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    He carries some 33 round mags in his vest, IIRC. He also carries a G26 backup.

    You can call him a liar. I’m not. His story is well documented.

    I also think a more powerful caliber is, well, more powerful. But I think the differences are not as great as some want to believe.
    No, I didn’t call him a liar, I said I don’t buy in to the story.

    I don’t buy in to the story because it is a demonstration of the extreme; the far fringe, an anomaly of actions and results.

    I don’t buy in to the story because it’s dangerous to take an event of extreme out of the ordinary occurrence and try to develop a doctrine of self defense from it.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
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    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
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  11. #25
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    "That's about the size of the Sig P290, one of my all time favorite pocket pistols. It's 6+1 of 9mm..." ~ @rlggray
    But... but... it only held 6 rounds. Nobody wants that. Discontinued, of course. Everybody wants the 365 with 10 or 12 or 15.
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  12. #26
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    Get an LCR 9mm if that's really the caliber you want.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlggray View Post
    That's about the size of the Sig P290, one of my all time favorite pocket pistols.

    It's 6+1 of 9mm, which I personally would prefer over 4+1 of 45 acp out of a 3" barrel and a 2 finger grip.
    I looked into that one. Sadly, they quit making it.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Okay, so my interest in a smaller gun for pocket carry has given me an inspiration. I don't want to carry a .380 (no caliber wars, please), and even most subcompact 9mm pistols seem a bit large for the pocket.

    Sadly, since no one seems to make the exact pocket gun I'm looking for, I decided to do a mock-up.

    Here's my idea, as compared to an XDS 45.



    Here are the specs I have in mind:

    About 3.8 inches in HEIGHT (since it's usually the grip and not the barrel that hinders concealability).

    Well under six inches in LENGTH.

    About 0.90 inches in WIDTH.

    Here's the part that will cause a little "controversy." I'm a big boy. I can handle it.

    To accomplish this size, capacity is to be 4+1. Yes, you read that right. I know we seem to be in a capacity war these days where every manufacturer is trying to increase the capacity of their guns, even the ones meant for concealment. But the laws of physics don't change; the 45 caliber round is the size it is. Period. Many people will carry well under their preferred caliber for the sake of concealment.

    ...

    A .45 with just over a 1" grip and sub 3" barrel? Good look putting the second shot on target! Or even getting a good grip on it during the draw.

    I think I know why SA has not made such a gun.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    -PEF, Refugee from the Island of Misfit Toys

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-man* View Post
    No, I didn’t call him a liar, I said I don’t buy in to the story.

    I don’t buy in to the story because it is a demonstration of the extreme; the far fringe, an anomaly of actions and results.

    I don’t buy in to the story because it’s dangerous to take an event of extreme out of the ordinary occurrence and try to develop a doctrine of self defense from it.
    PM inbound, so as to not further derail the thread
    Carry a sidearm always. Be able to put shots into the torso and then head, if needed. The rest is much less important.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Once again, those silly laws of physics interfere with my fantasies.

    For those of you who suggest a revolver, doesn't the width present a problem? I would think that the cylinder would be so wide that it would make concealment an issue.

    I tried front pocket carry of an S&W J-frame in dress slacks. It looked like I had a pregnant hamster in my pocket.

    I bought a Kel-Tec P3AT when they came out. It was painful to shoot and had lots of jams. I bought a Ruger LCP when they came out. It was painful to shoot and had lots of jams. They were so small, I couldn't get a firm grip on them with my large hands causing limp wrist issues.

    I traded them for a Sig P238 .380 when they came out. I had zero issues shooting it. I carried it in my right-front pocket until Sig came out with the P938 9mm. My wife liked mine so well that she bought one for herself.
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