Springfield EMP advice - Terrible itch for a new gun - Page 2

Springfield EMP advice - Terrible itch for a new gun

This is a discussion on Springfield EMP advice - Terrible itch for a new gun within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Nmuskier There is too much bad history with these short barrel 1911's. There was even a professional trainer who would advise students ...

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Thread: Springfield EMP advice - Terrible itch for a new gun

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    There is too much bad history with these short barrel 1911's. There was even a professional trainer who would advise students to NOT use a 3" 1911, but would give a full refund to anyone who could get one to finish his class without a malfunction. He didn't even make that guarantee for HiPoints.
    Ancient history.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Ancient history.
    I don't know. These pistols have been out for many decades. The bad reports are from this decade. 9 years isn't ancient to me.

    Best case scenario, this gun runs for a box of ammo. That is good, if you clean your carry gun daily. These little 1911's simply don't hold up to the reliability of many other choices that fill the same niche at a lower price. But it's purdy.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array MMinSC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by APX-9M View Post
    I'll take a 1911, CZ, Beretta, etc over any of the polymer wonders any day of the week. Guess you're paying extra for quality and extra machining.
    I would too. Some people shop only by price.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    I don't know. These pistols have been out for many decades. The bad reports are from this decade. 9 years isn't ancient to me.

    Best case scenario, this gun runs for a box of ammo. That is good, if you clean your carry gun daily. These little 1911's simply don't hold up to the reliability of many other choices that fill the same niche at a lower price. But it's purdy.
    It is the same as anything else. If you do not clean and maintain it you are gonna have problems. Small 1911's have a host of issues that must be dealt with. My original Colt Officers model was a POS even after several trips back to Colt. The timing issues had to be worked out. You have to use the right ammo as some are ammo sensitive. You also need to hold it correctly. I see far too many people shoot 1911's how they get away with shooting Glocks, without locking their wrist. How many people use expensive ammo for training classes? Or do the run the stuff they got a deal on? How many people tinker with their guns? I see Glocks that are tinkered with malfunction all the time.

    As I stated earlier, some people just do not know how to run a 1911, it is aggravated on the smaller one. As people get tired, they get sloppy and the malfunctions happen. So the natural solution is to blame the gun, not the mags, not the ammo, and not the shooter.

    As the weather heats up and I need to conceal better the tiny 1911 will come out more.
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array KimBobTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy49 View Post
    So, I went to my LGS and they had a Springfield EMP in 9mm and it felt real good in my hand. It was about the right size and the manual of arms is 1911. It is priced slightly more then I intended to spend (as if that has ever stopped me before), but I thought maybe some of you guys have had some experience with the EMP and could give me some advice.
    I know nothing about these, what’s a good price, what your budget is, or the price you found at the LGS, but ...

    Here’s a 4” 9mm for $800 with free shipping:

    https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperst....cfm/ID/214459

    Hers’s a 3” 40 for $700 with free shipping:

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/spri...tm_campaign=df

    I like that these are ambi safety as I shoot lefty. Good luck.
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  7. #21
    Member Array Tenring1911's Avatar
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    A lefty... think HK P30sk.
    My son is a lefty and likes his 1911s but once he handled an HK that was it, he owns a number of them now.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    It is the same as anything else. If you do not clean and maintain it you are gonna have problems.
    That is the point. Well respected professionals have proven a poor extended usage performance in 3" 1911's. So it isn't a shooter issue. Yeah, it is a maintenance issue in that these guns need to stop for maintenance where many other guns keep shooting. So, it is the shooter's choice as to how many rounds they care to rely upon before a stoppage.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    That is the point. Well respected professionals have proven a poor extended usage performance in 3" 1911's. So it isn't a shooter issue. Yeah, it is a maintenance issue in that these guns need to stop for maintenance where many other guns keep shooting. So, it is the shooter's choice as to how many rounds they care to rely upon before a stoppage.
    OK. Well all I need for my tiny 1911 to be reliable is 100 rounds or so. I did not buy it to run 1000 rounds in a weekend, though I doubt it would fail any more than my Glock would. But you glossed over the common causes of failures in handguns, magazines, ammo, user. You just can't blame it on the gun in a blanket statement.

    The only way to honestly do this would be something like what Larry Vickers did with AR's. Examine and document every malfunction for an extended period of time.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    OK. Well all I need for my tiny 1911 to be reliable is 100 rounds or so. I did not buy it to run 1000 rounds in a weekend, though I doubt it would fail any more than my Glock would. But you glossed over the common causes of failures in handguns, magazines, ammo, user. You just can't blame it on the gun in a blanket statement.
    This is not my opinion. This is realistic education to those looking at new guns, without having to fund thousands of dollars of mistakes. I am passing on observations from well respected professionals. To that point, we can eliminate user. 2nd, it is a safe assumption that a variety of students attempted to use a variety of ammunition. In one case, I know that 230 gr. ball ammo was used (I don't know the brand). So be it the gun or the magazine, these sub compact 1911's fail so often the failure guarantee stood for years, while other guns survived.

    So spend $1200 on a pretty piece that needs the maintenance of surgical equipment, or get something that keeps running. Or get a government size 1911.
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  11. #25
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    I have an EMP40. The only issue I had was my grip, somehow I was touching the slide stop during recoil and locking it back at random times. Changed my grip and no issues at all.
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  12. #26
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    As you shrink the 1911, issues increase that has been well documented. Most companies can produce a reliable 4-4.25” Commander sized gun, Baer Comanches being the exception. When you get down to 3” it’s harder but it can be done. A 3” 1911 is meant for CCW, practice yes, but not to run 500-1,000 rounds through at a time unless you’re going to change springs every 300 rounds or so. The EMP can be made to be reliable, the issues that many have are due to poor quality at Springfield not a 3” gun, issues with the breach face / firing pin hitting the case instead of primer, glued ejectors coming loose, chamber not properly reamed, etc.

    Maybe you get lucky & get a good one from the factory, maybe you spend $$ with a smith to fix Springfield’s mistakes but once it’s built properly it will run & perform for its intended purpose.

    If you’re going to a class, take your government or commander sized gun.


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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    This is not my opinion. This is realistic education to those looking at new guns, without having to fund thousands of dollars of mistakes. I am passing on observations from well respected professionals. To that point, we can eliminate user. 2nd, it is a safe assumption that a variety of students attempted to use a variety of ammunition. In one case, I know that 230 gr. ball ammo was used (I don't know the brand). So be it the gun or the magazine, these sub compact 1911's fail so often the failure guarantee stood for years, while other guns survived.

    So spend $1200 on a pretty piece that needs the maintenance of surgical equipment, or get something that keeps running. Or get a government size 1911.
    You can't assume it away. Without documented evidence. I get that some trainers don't like them in their classes. That is not the point here. The OP already has one small 1911 he is happy with. You are creating a straw man of some training course requiring millions of rounds between cleanings or maintenance. Of the 6 or so small 1911 pattern guns I have owned throughout the years the ONLY one to give me trouble was a Colt.

    My Springfield EMP has been flawless so far, that is what the OP is after. Post a link.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonp67 View Post
    As you shrink the 1911, issues increase that has been well documented. Most companies can produce a reliable 4-4.25” Commander sized gun, Baer Comanches being the exception. When you get down to 3” it’s harder but it can be done. A 3” 1911 is meant for CCW, practice yes, but not to run 500-1,000 rounds through at a time unless you’re going to change springs every 300 rounds or so. The EMP can be made to be reliable, the issues that many have are due to poor quality at Springfield not a 3” gun, issues with the breach face / firing pin hitting the case instead of primer, glued ejectors coming loose, chamber not properly reamed, etc.

    Maybe you get lucky & get a good one from the factory, maybe you spend $$ with a smith to fix Springfield’s mistakes but once it’s built properly it will run & perform for its intended purpose.

    If you’re going to a class, take your government or commander sized gun.


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    There are a plethora of 3" 1911's being made that run fine. 300 rounds for a spring? Kimber recommends 2500 rounds as do most others. Poor quality EMP? Seems the 9mm's are the ones with troubles in years past. I guess Sig's are poor quality too if you ever have a problem with one.
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  15. #29
    Member Array Rambler's Avatar
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    A buddy of mine has one and loves it. I’ve put a few mags thru it, and I’d love to pick one up, but I’m holding out for a Wilson Combat EDC X9...someday. But yeah, that 3” EMP was really sweet. Ate anything my buddy fed it. And it was so accurate, he called it his “Visine” cuz it gets the red out (of the bullseye).

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    You can't assume it away.
    If we cannot assume that professional trainers running a respected firearm academy can proficiently operate a commander frame 1911, we cannot assume anything.
    I get that some trainers don't like them in their classes.
    It isn't that they don't like them, it is that these frames will malfunction before most any other platform.
    You are creating a straw man of some training course requiring millions of rounds between cleanings or maintenance.
    I haven't seen a million round course. 200-600 is all, with cleaning opportunity at least x2 a day.
    Straw man- a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.
    If anything your million round argument is a straw man. Here is the OP question regarding the EMP: "What do you guys think?" I think these guns are nice looking, over priced, and will fail before many other similarly sized guns.
    Psalm 144:1

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