Point shooting at 15 feet - Page 4

Point shooting at 15 feet

This is a discussion on Point shooting at 15 feet within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin Quite a few well known instructors now see some type of point shooing to be a valuable skill to have. ...

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Thread: Point shooting at 15 feet

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array firefighterguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    Quite a few well known instructors now see some type of point shooing to be a valuable skill to have.
    They just call it by different name.
    I am still waiting for you to name someone who feels that point shooting replaces the need for aimed/ sighted shooting.
    I've seen point shooting discussed at long range distances (25 yds) on this forum. I can't and won't speak for the instructors who teach it, but when instructors use guns without sights on them it leads me to believe they don't have a need for aimed/sighted shooting.

    I think that distance is they key on this whole topic. Some people teach it well past contact distance and for others it stops there. I'd like to know of a sme self defense instructor who teaches point shooting at distances outside of 3 yards.


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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterguy View Post
    I've seen point shooting discussed at long range distances (25 yds) on this forum. I can't and won't speak for the instructors who teach it, but when instructors use guns without sights on them it leads me to believe they don't have a need for aimed/sighted shooting.

    I think that distance is they key on this whole topic. Some people teach it well past contact distance and for others it stops there. I'd like to know of a sme self defense instructor who teaches point shooting at distances outside of 3 yards.


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    Threat-focused shooting is taught as an additional skill, not as one to be relied on exclusively. The longer distances and lack of sights are intended to simply show what is possible, not what is being advocated.
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  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterguy View Post
    I've seen point shooting discussed at long range distances (25 yds) on this forum. I can't and won't speak for the instructors who teach it, but when instructors use guns without sights on them it leads me to believe they don't have a need for aimed/sighted shooting.

    I think that distance is they key on this whole topic. Some people teach it well past contact distance and for others it stops there. I'd like to know of a sme self defense instructor who teaches point shooting at distances outside of 3 yards.


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    I do.
    And once when I was teaching a class for the Akron Oh PD I was loaned a Glock 17 without sights for the class.
    I guess they wanted to keep me honest.
    (Demonstrating with a sightless pistol does not mean the instructor dismisses the necessity for sighted shooting. It is just a training vehicle.)
    Bottom line-- all of my guns have sights since this is not an either/ or proposition.

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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The worst thing about threat focused shooting from a revenue-dependent trainer's point of view is that it lacks complexity, and is therefore easily taught and quickly learned. After the first few minutes of instruction and subsequent range work, there isn't much more to elaborate on for each technique. Once the skills have been understood, they are easily maintained with occasional practice sessions. There is no need for the sequential "advanced" training that many schools depend on for return business or week-long, high dollar classes.
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  6. #50
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Threat-focused shooting is taught as an additional skill, not as one to be relied on exclusively. The longer distances and lack of sights are intended to simply show what is possible, not what is being advocated.

    when instructors use guns without sights on them it leads me to believe


    To correct the wrong quotes assumption above, it could read like this -- when instructors use training guns in a training session, without sights on them it leads me to believe that guy wouldn't really "need" to make use of sights --

    But lets not forget, there are guns that are manufactured without sights on them that people, designed for sd purposes no less, carry often enough. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility to see one of those make/models being used for sd. But you hit it correctly Mike, the video he refers to was for demonstration purposes only, with an slant at dispelling the myths that abound that one has to be able to whisper in someone's ear before they'd think about moving to a simple retention skill.
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  7. #51
    Member Array Bill801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post

    when instructors use guns without sights on them it leads me to believe


    To correct the wrong quotes assumption above, it could read like this -- when instructors use training guns in a training session, without sights on them it leads me to believe that guy wouldn't really "need" to make use of sights --

    But lets not forget, there are guns that are manufactured without sights on them that people, designed for sd purposes no less, carry often enough. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility to see one of those make/models being used for sd. But you hit it correctly Mike, the video he refers to was for demonstration purposes only, with an slant at dispelling the myths that abound that one has to be able to whisper in someone's ear before they'd think about moving to a simple retention skill.
    Here's a sightless 1911, my personal carry.

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array firefighterguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill801 View Post
    Here's a sightless 1911, my personal carry.
    You carry a gun without sights every day?


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  9. #53
    Member Array Bill801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterguy View Post
    You carry a gun without sights every day?


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    I can shoot POA to 7 yards in that configuration without issue, plus it's the only non-competition slide I currently own.

  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array dennis40x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill801 View Post
    I can shoot POA to 7 yards in that configuration without issue, plus it's the only non-competition slide I currently own.
    Mildly befuddled. What's the point of removing the sights? Are the sights a hindrance in Threat Focused Shooting? Just asking.

  11. #55
    Member Array Bill801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
    Mildly befuddled. What's the point of removing the sights? Are the sights a hindrance in Threat Focused Shooting? Just asking.
    When my BIL passed a couple of years ago, I inherited a bunch of 1911 parts and a box of random holsters.

    He was a competitive shooter as well as a gunsmith.

    The only thing missing from the parts box was a frame.

    I bought the frame and taught myself (with much consulting of a good friend of mine) how to build a 1911. That slide, it appears, was in transition to some sort of competition setup, hence the missing sights. What he was going to do is a mystery, as he never wrote anything down.

    I taught myself to use that slide, and it's been good so far. I will be buying another slide, just not sure when. Maybe I'll pick one up at a gun show.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
    Mildly befuddled. What's the point of removing the sights? Are the sights a hindrance in Threat Focused Shooting? Just asking.
    No, they are not.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Ditto. Neither a help or a hinderence.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
    Mildly befuddled. What's the point of removing the sights? Are the sights a hindrance in Threat Focused Shooting? Just asking.
    I use my non sights 1911 as a training/demonstration gun. When a student keeps lowering their head in an attempt to use them, I hand them the 1911 no sighted and thus force them to stop trying to find them. If you're going to learn to ignore them, sometimes it's easier if they aren't there to begin with, then the student can just follow the instruction until his brain turns off having to verify the sights are aligned.

    For years, I was told I HAD to be using the sights to make the precision hits I was making, I had to be cheating and selling snake oil. Well, with the you tube channel demonstrating the skills one can develop without use of sights, there's no more bs about calling it snake oil and parlor tricks. It works, it'll work for everyone, but their mind is usually the limiting factor, see my sig line, it's more accurate than people can imagine.

    Strictly a training aid for myself and students who are paying me good money to learn to ignore them and then can't seem to do just that, knowing they are there. .

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