How to create a distraction during armed robbery? - Page 2

How to create a distraction during armed robbery?

This is a discussion on How to create a distraction during armed robbery? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by sqlb3rn If a BG has the drop on you, I think it's import to wait until he has his attention off you ...

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Thread: How to create a distraction during armed robbery?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Poppy42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sqlb3rn View Post
    If a BG has the drop on you, I think it's import to wait until he has his attention off you before drawing on him. That opportunity might not come without you creating a distraction; for example he might have the drop on you and pat you down with focused attention and take your gun(s). Maybe he even has an accomplice also watching you.

    What you need is a distraction, and a Snickers ain't gonna help with that. What are the best methods do you think, of creating a good distraction? I've heard of throwing your wallet on the floor. Or looking over the BGs shoulder and basically doing a "look over there!" Do you have any plans to create a distraction, or do you plan to just let it unfold and go with the flow of whatever opportunity you get?
    How bout if I poop my pants? I bet the stink would distract them
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  2. #17
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonB77 View Post
    Come up guns a blazing!


    Seriously faking a heart attack might not be the best idea. You also might not just get the opportunity to disarm the guy. Who knows? No matter what kind of training you have you don't know what you will do untill you are actually in the situation.
    It's easy to say that you would do a tactical back flip and disarm the guy. Saying it and doing it in real life are two completely different things.

    I also realize that your training is way better than mine. You can probably do things that I can't because of lack of training. I would just have to do the best I could with the tools I have available. My lack of training in disarms leads me to believe my best bet would be getting my firearm in play if I didn't think complying would get me home safe.

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    That's a great post and mindset Houston.

    I would just have to do the best I could with the tools I have available. My lack of training in disarms leads me to believe my best bet would be getting my firearm in play if I didn't think complying would get me home safe.

    Something everyone should consider and have forethought where their abilities and best chances as the scenario presents.

    Saying it and doing it in real life are two completely different things.

    In my own case, the two actual street disarms came after the training and a few years of practice as in the demos. In one scenario, the gun wasn't being brought to bear toward me, but a dep sheriff standing next to me in the guys doorway. I startled the dep as much as the guy at the door, there was no time to do anything but snatch the gun out of his hand [ a little 25 semi auto like a jennings no less ]. The years of training to take them from various angles presented on my body as seen in one of the vids up here and from various distances out to what many would consider out of disarm range allowed the confidence to react, not hesitate. In this case, I'm confident he'd have pulled the trigger, there was no time to think about it. The training brings more enlightenment as to what one's options are. More options are better.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    PA, I've been trained in many methodologies of disarms, the same as you describe above as well. Here's where I'm at with it, and it comes once again from the mentors at SIONICS counter terr training and not one of the gun courses.

    Moving as I did, to their outside and collapsing their wrist inward provides the following:
    Takes advantage of the way the elbow works, they can't pull back and bend the elbow to shoot you if you miss the initial contact
    If there's a struggle once the gun is grabbed, the person on the outside has advantage.

    It also segways very well into the h2h/defensive edged weapons principles of getting to the outside for advantage unless forced to go inside.,
    I will say that your way puts you to the outside more quickly, but then you step back inside as you bend the arm in. That puts you closer to his other hand if he chooses to do something himself. You've got both hands occupied trying to get his gun away in a position where it's easier for him to retain his grip and pull you closer.

    Like I said, I'm just trying to see the advantage over the way I was taught. Ultimately, not practicing this stuff on even an irregular basis, if the time comes I know I'll use the method I was first taught.
    Even if you use your left hand like you show, grabbing the barrel with your right hand and bending outward will keep you on the outside and work the bad guys hand in a way it doesn't want to bend. No?
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  5. #19
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    PA, I've been trained in many methodologies of disarms, the same as you describe above as well. Here's where I'm at with it, and it comes once again from the mentors at SIONICS counter terr training and not one of the gun courses.

    Moving as I did, to their outside and collapsing their wrist inward provides the following:
    Takes advantage of the way the elbow works, they can't pull back and bend the elbow to shoot you if you miss the initial contact
    If there's a struggle once the gun is grabbed, the person on the outside has advantage.

    It also segways very well into the h2h/defensive edged weapons principles of getting to the outside for advantage unless forced to go inside.,
    PA, here's Matt trying to struggle to maintain possession of the firearm. Notice I'm not dancing around, nearly standing in place. Once the struggle is attempted, it's too late, the gun and muzzle are under control and through the leverage applied, he collapses to the ground. In the real world, I'd have not been smiling or helping him back to his feet. Matt, 7677 and I had a great day together training and sharing information with a 4th leo who was a CAR instructor

    There's a lot of ways to skin this cat, many work quite well and like you, I'm not going to let them take their best shot at close range.

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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    PA, here's Matt trying to struggle to maintain possession of the firearm. Notice I'm not dancing around, nearly standing in place. Once the struggle is attempted, it's too late, the gun and muzzle are under control and through the leverage applied, he collapses to the ground. In the real world, I'd have not been smiling or helping him back to his feet. Matt, 7677 and I had a great day together training and sharing information with a 4th leo who was a CAR instructor

    OK. I can see it a little better now.
    I'm not seeing why bending the wrist in instead of out is better, but doing it "at speed" proved your method a little more clearly.
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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    OK. I can see it a little better now.
    I'm not seeing why bending the wrist in instead of out is better, but doing it "at speed" proved your method a little more clearly.
    They instinctively pull back to gain control of the gun. That assists in collapsing the arm through the wrist. I've gone with some strong boys who I couldn't do anything but keep the muzzle off me as we struggled for control. I wasn't going to be able to leverage it away, even with two hand on it like in Matts case. In those rare cases that's happened [ and it's always good to see worst case scenarios in training ] I had to resort to "other" skills to keep from being shot.

    If you rewatch the one with Keith, there's instances of taking the gun outbound as that presented as the quickest way at that time [ with the gun to my head from various positions ]. I'll use what's most expedient, and the way you've been trained does work, it's in the vid. Then it just becomes ones preferences, what to use and when.
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  8. #22
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy42 View Post
    How bout if I poop my pants? I bet the stink would distract them
    But would that be done tactically?
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Poppy42's Avatar
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    Did you say tactically or tactfully
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    Long, Wide, Deep, and without hesitation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy42 View Post
    Did you say tactically or tactfully
    Your play, your call...
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    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    You can only process one thing at a time. You want to reset their ooda loop. It depends on many factors, do you have your hands up? Can you wiggle your fingers and strike when he looks away? Can you ask him a question and strike when he starts to respond? There are a few ways to distract people.
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Poppy42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Your play, your call...
    I guess if i said excuse me it could be considered tactfully. Wouldn't it?
    Long, Wide, Deep, and without hesitation.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    a throw away wallet
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    I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but I guess it worked for this guy...

    https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/thread...%80%99.165723/
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  15. #29
    Member Array sqlb3rn's Avatar
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    I was interested in ways to go about creating a distraction, but I guess we are going to talk about disarms instead.

    Those disarms seem pretty risky, esp if there are 2 bad guys. You are pitting your physical ability against another person's physical ability and hoping you come out on top. You go to grab his gun and he flinches and you miss or don't get a solid grip... oops. Even just trying to simply punch someone in the face is sooo easy to miss. These videos all involve the BG extending his gun out to you and leaving it there, when a lot of times they hold the gun in retention and use their other hand to grab loot, pat you down, and keep you at distance. Also, some of those videos don't even have follow up action... post number 6, okay you briefly slapped his gun away, now what? The training partner in post 2 isn't even trying, just standing there like a pole for demonstration... not hopping around on adrenaline, shoving you, or repeatedly jamming his gun in your chest. So, I'm not sold on these techniques for the average Joe (ie: me).

    If you simply slap his gun away and draw, now you're in a gun fight. Go for a disarm and miss, probably going to eat lead. If you can use your mind to create a good distraction and he has no idea what hit him, much less chance of getting return fire. That said, if it looks like an easy grab, I'd probably go for it.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sqlb3rn View Post
    I was interested in ways to go about creating a distraction, but I guess we are going to talk about disarms instead.

    Those disarms seem pretty risky, esp if there are 2 bad guys. You are pitting your physical ability against another person's physical ability and hoping you come out on top. You go to grab his gun and he flinches and you miss or don't get a solid grip... oops. Even just trying to simply punch someone in the face is sooo easy to miss. These videos all involve the BG extending his gun out to you and leaving it there, when a lot of times they hold the gun in retention and use their other hand to grab loot, pat you down, and keep you at distance. Also, some of those videos don't even have follow up action... post number 6, okay you briefly slapped his gun away, now what? The training partner in post 2 isn't even trying, just standing there like a pole for demonstration... not hopping around on adrenaline, shoving you, or repeatedly jamming his gun in your chest. So, I'm not sold on these techniques for the average Joe (ie: me).

    If you simply slap his gun away and draw, now you're in a gun fight. Go for a disarm and miss, probably going to eat lead. If you can use your mind to create a good distraction and he has no idea what hit him, much less chance of getting return fire. That said, if it looks like an easy grab, I'd probably go for it.
    What all this demonstrates is that there is no easy answer. There is no $2 cure, there is no fast easy method that works without training, planning and practice. A disarm is very dangerous to perform and is truly a last act of desperation. If you make your move you must be fast and decisive, once you start there is no turning back. If this does not work for you then your only option is hope for mercy from an unknown violent threat. Awareness of ones surroundings helps from getting into these situations in the first place. Make a game out of it, pay attention to what everyone is doing around you.
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    Check out the CR-12 - wilkinsontactical.com

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