Some thoughts on speed of presentation from the old masters - Page 2

Some thoughts on speed of presentation from the old masters

This is a discussion on Some thoughts on speed of presentation from the old masters within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. You have to learn to be slow in a hurry. - Wyatt Earp...

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Thread: Some thoughts on speed of presentation from the old masters

  1. #16
    Member Array Taxman's Avatar
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    Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. You have to learn to be slow in a hurry. - Wyatt Earp

  2. #17
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmc View Post
    Somewhere around here I have an old book by Ed MCGiven entitled Fast and Fancy revolver shooting.
    I've got two books by Askins, one each by Cooper and Jordan and MCGiven's book in the library.
    Last edited by AzQkr; February 19th, 2019 at 09:36 PM.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmc View Post
    Somewhere around here I have an old book by Ed MCGiven entitled Fast and Fancy revolver shooting.
    Ed McGivern among mankind's worst writers!
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  5. #19
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
    Ed McGivern among mankind's worst writers!
    It's not the easiest reading, but the gems he mentions within are priceless

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array xXxHeavy's Avatar
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    Whenever I read the famous quote "God Created Man, Colonel Colt Made Them Equal" I think of him....
    Little man with a Big Statement......and hat.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerberos View Post
    So what's the modern day application for the concealed carrier with lofty aspirations?

    I've only recently started averaging 1.5 seconds from a random timer to first shot on a 8" circle at 7 yards pretty consistently...

    And I KNOW I'm no master.

    Sub one-second the "new" goal?

    From my last trip; a damn good 5 shot string. (for me)







    edit: not sure why that picture is so big? my apologies
    From Concealment at that range I'm happy with 1.3 and .25 splits from myself in IDPA, in USPSA the split would be faster, and I do pretty good at most matches. A sub 1 second is possible, I've heard of a couple who supposedly can do it. In real life???I just want the first hit to be before the other guy can hit me, hopefully enough before that he won't hit me. But I'd rather just not test it either.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    My thoughts are if you are a lawman charged with facing down people, speed with your gear is pretty important.

    As an average American going about his daily life, trouble is probably not going to advertise its intentions and catch you with your pants down, so speed is not as important as the ability to think on your feet.
    Also, one must accept the probability that no matter how fast they are, if you are working behind the curve, you are probably going to get hit, even if you are successful.

    I think strolling down Memory Lane and Nostalgia Avenue is fun and interesting....even educational; but has little to do with the realities of my daily life.
    AzQkr, ButtShot14 and Shootnlead like this.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
    -Jeff Cooper

    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
    -Joe Foss

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array xXxHeavy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post

    As an average American going about his daily life, trouble is probably not going to advertise its intentions and catch you with your pants down, so speed is not as important as the ability to think on your feet.

    I don't agree with that one........
    Last edited by OD*; February 20th, 2019 at 07:15 AM.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I like those "old masters" too, but they were professionals in the field of teaching, deconstrating, and theorizing on gunfighting. From what I have read, there isn't much documentation that they actually did much gunfighting.

    The quotes/anecdotes I like are:
    • Claude Werner's study of actual, non-military, non-LEO DGUs: "Incidents rarely occurred in reaction time (i.e., ¼ second increments). Most commonly, criminals acted in a shark-like fashion, slowly circling and alerting their intended victims. The defender(s) then had time to access even weapons that were stored in other rooms and bring them to bear."
    • The SEAL saying, "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." Wyatt Earp basically said the same thing, only he was more wordy.
    • That "Glock Leg" is a thing.
    I read somewhere years ago that what Earp said was, "Take your time... quickly".

    I don't know about Bill Jordan but Jeff Cooper has shot men with his sidearm. I seem to recall he dispatched three of them with a 1911 in WWII.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    America First!

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmc View Post
    Somewhere around here I have an old book by Ed MCGiven entitled Fast and Fancy revolver shooting.
    Ed McGivern was a master with his revolver. Some of the things he could do with it were truly amazing.
    OD* likes this.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    America First!

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...the-250-drill/

    Beginning at 3 yards, fire a single shot to the head in 1.5 seconds. Then do it again. From 7 yards engage the target with two shots to the body in 1.5 seconds
    Is this shoot open carry or concealed?

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array G-man*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post

    As an average American going about his daily life, trouble is probably not going to advertise its intentions and catch you with your pants down, so speed is not as important as the ability to think on your feet.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXxHeavy View Post
    I don't agree with that one........
    Of course not, I would expect nothing less, lol
    Last edited by OD*; February 20th, 2019 at 07:17 AM.
    " Blessed is that man, who when facing death, thinks only of his front sight.”
    -Jeff Cooper

    “ Looking around doesn’t cost you anything; and it’s a healthy habit”
    -Joe Foss

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CG11 View Post
    You don't necessarily have to be the first to fire, but you better be the first to hit.
    Why not both?
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    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  15. #29
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mailman View Post
    Is this shoot open carry or concealed?
    My guess being gunsite, open carry
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  16. #30
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    My thoughts are if you are a lawman charged with facing down people, speed with your gear is pretty important.

    As an average American going about his daily life, trouble is probably not going to advertise its intentions and catch you with your pants down, so speed is not as important as the ability to think on your feet.
    Also, one must accept the probability that no matter how fast they are, if you are working behind the curve, you are probably going to get hit, even if you are successful.

    I think strolling down Memory Lane and Nostalgia Avenue is fun and interesting....even educational; but has little to do with the realities of my daily life.
    Some people have all the luck
    OD* likes this.

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