Jonesboro police release body-cam video of officer-involved shooting - Page 2

Jonesboro police release body-cam video of officer-involved shooting

This is a discussion on Jonesboro police release body-cam video of officer-involved shooting within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The guy with the gun had reached a point in his existence where there was one, and only one possible course of action which might ...

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Thread: Jonesboro police release body-cam video of officer-involved shooting

  1. #16
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    The guy with the gun had reached a point in his existence where there was one, and only one possible course of action which might possibly ensure his continued physical well-being. That was not the course of action he went with.
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  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Oh Matt.....

    You can't possibly tell me that with a strait face. How many armed BG's have you taken down? Of those how many, while at gunpoint, unbidden wanted to draw their gun only to lay it down when ordered to have their hands in plain sight?

    Sure, use of cover is always a good thing, however, sometimes things evolve very quickly.

    No, Matt, he was drawing the gun, not putting it down.
    That is your perception.
    Not mine.
    Was the officer legally justified?
    Yes.
    Morally?
    Well.....
    One of my instructors is a retired NYPD E.S.U officer as well as retired Special Forces ( mainly reserves)
    He had 3 kills as a cop and many more in his tours in Afganistan.
    Not one kill ever cost him any sleep.
    Why?
    When he was 16 was lucky to have a neighbor who was a former O.S.S Agent as well as retired from a civilian intelligence agency where he served after the war.
    The man took a liking to young Steve and taught him much about close combat.
    However the most important lesson that he shared was about the morality of killing.
    As he related to me when you kill you must be, in your own mind, 110% certain that you had no other option.
    None.
    If that is true then you will sleep like a baby.
    But, if there is any doubt in your mind that something else was possible you will replay that incident in your mind— and see that man’s ghost in your dreams— until the day you die.
    In answer to your question about my personal experience only about 5 times.
    Three against knives and twice against guns.
    Once I was working an off duty job and was able to get behind cover and issue a challenge against a suspected car thief who had a semi auto pistol out— back in the day when good guys carried wheel guns.
    Turns out he was an off duty narcotics officer looking for the same bad guy that I was seeking.
    Second time was, as it turned out, a guy dressed up as a court officer but aroused my suspicion because he had no uniform patches and his weapon was stuck in his waistband.
    As I approached and was close he attempted to draw on me.
    Without any conscience thought I snatched the gun from his hand before it was fully drawn.
    Turns out the bad guy was an out patient mental case and his weapon was replica revolver.
    I am sure a tough guy such as yourself have had scores of incidents which make mine pale in comparison but not killing— even when legally justified— has kept me ghost free.
    Hopefully the same will be true for the officer in the video.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    That is your perception.
    Not mine.

    I am sure a tough guy like you have had scores of incidents which make mine pale in comparison but not killing– even when legally justified– has kept me ghost free.
    Hopefully the same will be true for the officer in the video.
    Yep. It was my perception that he was going for his gun. You agree with that part, what we disagree with was his intent AFTER he had the gun in his hand. I traded my broken crystal ball off years ago and I am not a mind reader. There is NO time to wait and see in an armed encounter t those distances. Just like every time I fought over my holstered gun with some clown, I took it to mean he was going to kill me if he got it.

    You are not the only one mentored by combat vets as a child.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Yep. It was my perception that he was going for his gun. You agree with that part, what we disagree with was his intent AFTER he had the gun in his hand. I traded my broken crystal ball off years ago and I am not a mind reader. There is NO time to wait and see in an armed encounter t those distances. Just like every time I fought over my holstered gun with some clown, I took it to mean he was going to kill me if he got it.

    You are not the only one mentored by combat vets as a child.
    I must be missing something because I am certain that I never made that claim.
    Nor am I the one who made this personal.
    Actually I was referring to my friend Steve Hayden.
    American Combat Evolutions
    Glad to see the 3 of us made it to retirement ghost free.
    Hopefully so.

  6. #20
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    Matt, with these quote I agree 100%

    However the most important lesson that he shared was about the morality of killing.
    As he related to me when you kill you must be, in your own mind, 110% certain that you had no other option.
    None.
    If that is true then you will sleep like a baby.
    But, if there is any doubt in your mind that something else was possible you will replay that incident in your mind— and see that man’s ghost in your dreams— until the day you die.
    While I've never been in a situation of needing a gun I believe you have to have no other choice at all to bring one into the situation. Once that's reach then think of nothing but stopping the threat.

    I have no reason to being looking for the drug dealer behind the house so for me I see no reason to ask him to drop the gun in the first place. In a situation for me as a CCer the sight of a gun in hand is that 110% reason to act in a treating situation.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    Hate to be a doubting Thomas— or second guess good guys— but.
    Better use of cover could have bought the officer more time to evaluate.
    It appears the individual was in the process of dropping the gun when he was shot.
    Just saying.
    That thought went through my mind too. But dropping a gun isn't much of a process. You open your hand and gravity takes over. After thinking about it for a few minutes, which is far longer than the officers had, I decided he was in the process of weighing the options of dropping the gun and opening fire.
    AzQkr likes this.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    I must be missing something because I am certain that I never made that claim.
    It appears the individual was in the process of dropping the gun when he was shot.
    That is what I am talking about. Don't spin it off in some other direction.

    How in Gods green earth can you honestly say that from the video provided? I have been in hundreds of armed encounters and NEVER did someone go for a hidden gun, while receiving commands to not do ANYTHING try to drop a conceal weapon. As shown in the video that is an excellent way of getting shot. Yes I am calling out your statement that he was dropping the gun when he was shot. There is no evidence to support that assertion.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    That is what I am talking about. Don't spin it off in some other direction.

    How in Gods green earth can you honestly say that from the video provided? I have been in hundreds of armed encounters and NEVER did someone go for a hidden gun, while receiving commands to not do ANYTHING try to drop a conceal weapon. As shown in the video that is an excellent way of getting shot. Yes I am calling out your statement that he was dropping the gun when he was shot. There is no evidence to support that assertion.
    At what point did he "go for" a hidden gun? I just re watched that part of the video several times and the gun was already in the guy's hand. He then extends his hand toward the building not the officers and it looks like he's holding it between his fingers by the end of the grip about to drop it.

    It's also very interesting that they shrunk the video that has the best view of what happed making it harder to see. Why not just show them back to back like most other body cam videos? Seems intentional.

    I'm not saying the officers did anything wrong just what I see in the video. The guy had a gun in his hand and didn't immediately drop it so it's on him but I can see how someone would say he was in the process of dropping it.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    At what point did he "go for" a hidden gun? I just re watched that part of the video several times and the gun was already in the guy's hand. He then extends his hand toward the building not the officers and it looks like he's holding it between his fingers by the end of the grip about to drop it.

    It's also very interesting that they shrunk the video that has the best view of what happed making it harder to see. Why not just show them back to back like most other body cam videos? Seems intentional.

    I'm not saying the officers did anything wrong just what I see in the video. The guy had a gun in his hand and didn't immediately drop it so it's on him but I can see how someone would say he was in the process of dropping it.
    Oh boy....... I did it now... I was confused. Wrong video.....
    A man has got to know his limitations.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Temkin View Post
    I must be missing something because I am certain that I never made that claim.
    Nor am I the one who made this personal.
    Actually I was referring to my friend Steve Hayden.
    American Combat Evolutions
    Glad to see the 3 of us made it to retirement ghost free.
    Hopefully so.
    Oh boy....... I did it now... I was confused. Wrong video....

    You were right, I was wrong..... I agree with you.... He was dropping the gun.....
    AzQkr likes this.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    What I saw was the subject on his knees with his hands up, the then goes for his waist with both hands. after he is shot the gun is still in his waist.
    Did you watch the wrong video? Go back to the first post and click on the link and watch it. He was never on his knees and he didn't have his hands raised.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    Did you watch the wrong video? Go back to the first post and click on the link and watch it. He was never on his knees and he didn't have his hands raised.
    I did.....
    A man has got to know his limitations.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Oh boy....... I did it now... I was confused. Wrong video....

    You were right, I was wrong..... I agree with you.... He was dropping the gun.....
    Roger that.😏
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  15. #29
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    First sight of the perp...right hand down, either drawing gun or holding it behind his leg. Then he, seeing a uniformed officer, brought the gun up...right there's where I would have pulled the trigger...the officer was talking. Perp hesitates and then seems to be preparing to drop the gun, but still brings it up higher...then drops it at about the time the officer shoots. I think it's a good shoot.I'm totally against talking once the gun's in his hand. Only a fool would draw or bring up a gun in front of a man he knew was an officer. Had he let the gun stay in pocket, or dropped it behind his leg, instead of bringing it up, he'd be alive today, enjoying that good jail oatmeal.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Oh boy....... I did it now... I was confused. Wrong video.....
    I've done that several times myself when there's more than one thread running with vids of incidents Bob. It happens.
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