The Tightest Box (Picture Heavy; NSFW maybe)

The Tightest Box (Picture Heavy; NSFW maybe)

This is a discussion on The Tightest Box (Picture Heavy; NSFW maybe) within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; What?! This is a thread about which of four different ammunition brands shot the smallest group out of my PTR 91, GI model, regardless of ...

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Thread: The Tightest Box (Picture Heavy; NSFW maybe)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array rjinga's Avatar
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    The Tightest Box (Picture Heavy; NSFW maybe)

    What?! This is a thread about which of four different ammunition brands shot the smallest group out of my PTR 91, GI model, regardless of its placement on the target.

    I bought all of the ammunition from SGAmmo.com (per round price does not include shipping).
    Malaysian surplus at $0.37 per round:

    German surplus at $0.45 per round:

    Federal Premium Gold Medal Match at $1.05 per round, and PPU Match at $0.75 per round:


    At 200 yds the German surplus had the 2nd highest score and the smallest group extent box (GEB):

    The Federal Match had the highest score and the 2nd smallest GEB:

    The PPU Match had the lowest score and the 3rd biggest GEB (unless you want to throw out the one low shot as a flyer):

    And the Malaysian surplus had the 3rd lowest score and the biggest GEB:


    At 300 yds the PPU Match had the 3rd lowest score but the smallest GEB:

    The Malaysian surplus had the 2nd highest score and the 2nd smallest GEB:

    The German surplus had the lowest score and the 3rd biggest GEB:

    And even though the Federal Match had the highest score at 300 yds, it also had the biggest GEB:
    gasmitty and HotBrass45 like this.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array rjinga's Avatar
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    Cont.

    I shot two different strings at 600 yds. One the first string, the PPU Match has the highest score and the smallest GEB:


    The Malaysian surplus technically had the 3rd lowest score and the 3rd biggest GEB:


    However, one shot of the German surplus was so far off that it didnít even register on the target program. And, two shots of the Federal Match registered as 0.0 scores. Since neither of those groups contained 10 shots, Iím not including them.

    On the second string the PPU Match had the 2nd highest score and the smallest GEB again at 600 yds:


    This time I got all 10 shots of Federal Match inside the scoring area and it produced the 3rd lowest score and the 2nd smallest GEB:


    I also got all 10 of the second group of German surplus rounds on target this time. It got the highest score and the third biggest GEB:



    And, the Malaysian surplus came in last in score and GEB on the second round:


    Conclusions: Until this past range trip, I was a big fan of the price/performance of the German surplus. However, at $0.37 a round, the Malaysian surplus has become a contender, maybe even out to 300 yds. And, I think Iím definitely going to buy some more PPU Match and work on moving its groups onto the X-Ring.
    Old Man likes this.
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Looks like it all would get the job done.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Libertywheel's Avatar
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    Not a huge difference. Must be the shooter not the ammo!
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    This thread was a letdown. Nice shooting, though.
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    Member Array BackcountryGuy's Avatar
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    If you're up for trying new ammo around the $1/round range, try out a box of the Hornady American Gunner. It uses a HPBT bullet and has been extremely accurate out of every caliber I've shot it in. 1/2 MOA or under 5 shot groups

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    Any chance you could chrono maybe 10 rounds from each ammo type?

    Showing your data just feeds the number cruncher and measurements analyst in me... sorry!

    What catches my eye is that the Federal ammo has a much higher vertical dispersion at 200 and 600 yards than the other 3 types of ammo. If you minimize the human and climatic elements (like crosswinds), I would expect a 10-shot group to have roughly the same horizontal dispersion as vertical, so the ratio of vertical to horizontal should approach 1.0 for a random population of all groups. What would cause that ratio to be skewed? My hypothesis is variation in velocity is responsible. Now it's possible that a different recoil profile for the Federal might be at the root of this behavior, or possibly some random flyers, but shooting 10-shot groups should minimize that effect by creating an equal opportunity for shooter-caused flyers to occur. So I'm sticking with a greater variability in velocity in the Federal for now. BTW, the Maylaysian ammo shows the most consistent "aspect ratio" of all the ammo you sampled, with PPU coming in 2nd.

    My data distillation is below. Let me know what you (and others!) think.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Tightest Box (Picture Heavy; NSFW maybe)-rjinga-groups.jpg  

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Array rjinga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Any chance you could chrono maybe 10 rounds from each ammo type?
    Sorry, I don't have a chronometer.

    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    What catches my eye is that the Federal ammo has a much higher vertical dispersion at 200 and 600 yards than the other 3 types of ammo. If you minimize the human and climatic elements (like crosswinds), I would expect a 10-shot group to have roughly the same horizontal dispersion as vertical, so the ratio of vertical to horizontal should approach 1.0 for a random population of all groups. What would cause that ratio to be skewed?
    Well, I was glancing at the monitor after each shot and then I was either trying to adjust back toward the X-Ring if the shot was off, or duplicate the previous shot if it was a good one.

    Here's the link to my thread that includes photos of the entire monitor screen: https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...on-sights.html

    On the right-hand side of each monitor photo the shot placements are listed in the order they were fired, if that would help with your analysis.
    "Yo, homie. Is that my briefcase?"
    Sig Sauer P229 SAS GEN 2 E2 9mm; PTR 91, GI model; Chinese Type 56 SKS; Smith & Wesson Shield 9mm

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    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    @gasmitty I was thinking along similar lines. I thought the PPU poked the most consistent groups. Your spreadsheet shows it 2nd. My intuition has me leaning toward PPU still. Is that a preconceived bias against the Malaysian surplus? Can the PPU groups be described as "more dense"?

    I also suspected the Federal might have less consistent velocity causing vertical stringing.
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