Kel-Tec Sub-2000 Owners?

Kel-Tec Sub-2000 Owners?

This is a discussion on Kel-Tec Sub-2000 Owners? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I finally saved my pennies and dimes and then scoured the hinterlands for a Sub-2000 in 40 S&W that takes Glock 23 mags. I'm hoping ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Kel-Tec Sub-2000 Owners?

    I finally saved my pennies and dimes and then scoured the hinterlands for a Sub-2000 in 40 S&W that takes Glock 23 mags. I'm hoping this will be a useful tool for two purposes:

    1) An easily portable back up long gun that fits in a computer bag. As such, the gun doesn't scream "terrorist" to the sheep like an AR-15 pistol or folding stock AK-47.

    2) A home defense weapon that my wife can operate easily, has a recoil impulse that is tamable, and offers plenty of power for the task. As we get older, a lighter weapon that is as effective at household ranges is appreciated.

    I have a quick release mount and a red dot for it, but wondered what others might think necessary, if anything. I appreciate member @hrfunk 's work with the gun and his suggestions seem reasonable. Anyone else have one or at least can offer any thoughts and / or suggestions?

    ETA - I'm thinking the 180 gr HST's would work and deliver about 1200 fps from the 16" barrel. 155 HST's should go about 1330 fps and 135 gr Underwood JHP's should clock about about 1650.
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    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    I think you will like your sub 2k. The trigger on those guns are not great. MCarbo makes upgrade kits for it, but don't expect and AR15-like trigger pull when you're done. I think mine went from 8.5 lbs to 5.5 lbs. There is still some creep. The sights that come with the gun require a serious cheek weld to align. The recoil gives your cheek a bit of a pounding. In fact, when I let my father-in-law shoot it, it cut his cheek with the latching tab. Not a small issue to someone on blood thinners. I need to file off part of that sharp edge. So when you get a sight, make sure it sits up high enough. That's going to be my next mod.
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    Distinguished Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
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    JMO

    I really like the concept, but wasn't impressed with the quality of the 9mm version I had.
    My experience is out of date though. I had the first generation Sub-2000 and they have corrected some of the issues that it had. As for quality? It's still a KelTec, although they do have good customer service.
    Mine went back 3 times for various issues. The third time they replaced it with a new one.
    That one was Traded NIB for a Ruger PC9 which became my wife's house gun.

    Personally, I believe there are other platforms that will fill the role just as well and with better quality.

    Train with it realistically for the role you want it to fill. It will the job.
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Thanks for the opinions so far.

    @Stirling XD I have a 3 rail QD mount that is .6" tall, and the red dot itself was made to co-witness on an AR, so it should be tall enough, but I figured I might be a frequent customer of Mcarbo. hrfunk suggested the tube pad, recoil buffer, rear sight, and IIRC their heavy charging handle. I'll be sure to take a look at the latching tab. Thanks for the tip.

    @TSKnight I'll see how it does. My FFL here says he has sold quite a few of the Gen 2 models. I wanted the 40 because at times I carry a 40 and the hot loads out of the 16" barrel are basically the same energy at 50 yards as a 4" barrel .357 Mag 125 gr at the muzzle. My main rationale for the Sub-2K is that I've been carrying an AR pistol (300 BO) but even with the 8.5" barrel, it takes my infamous tennis racquet bag and the wife tells me I look like the least likely tennis player on earth! The Sub-2K will easily fit in a large laptop bag I scrounged up.
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    Distinguished Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Thanks for the opinions so far.

    @Stirling XD I have a 3 rail QD mount that is .6" tall, and the red dot itself was made to co-witness on an AR, so it should be tall enough, but I figured I might be a frequent customer of Mcarbo. hrfunk suggested the tube pad, recoil buffer, rear sight, and IIRC their heavy charging handle. I'll be sure to take a look at the latching tab. Thanks for the tip.

    @TSKnight I'll see how it does. My FFL here says he has sold quite a few of the Gen 2 models. I wanted the 40 because at times I carry a 40 and the hot loads out of the 16" barrel are basically the same energy at 50 yards as a 4" barrel .357 Mag 125 gr at the muzzle. My main rationale for the Sub-2K is that I've been carrying an AR pistol (300 BO) but even with the 8.5" barrel, it takes my infamous tennis racquet bag and the wife tells me I look like the least likely tennis player on earth! The Sub-2K will easily fit in a large laptop bag I scrounged up.
    I've got two friends that have gen 2 Sub-2000's that are relatively satisfied. The only complaint I've heard is the triggers are crummy and the lockup when unfolded isn't as solid as it could be. Both are complaint that I had with the early version.

    Mine had a complete failure of the latch yet managed to fire one round that way before coming apart at the hinge. That's when they replaced the entire rifle. Was kind of surprised that there was no questioning about misuse or abuse, Just a phone call asking for a dealer that I wanted the new rifle shipped to.

    I have a G17 with an Endo brace that fills the role of PDW. It fits nicely in a laptop bag or a normal size back pack without needing to be unfolded if needed. My laptop bag has a level IIIA ballistic panel in it too.
    Have to admit that the 16" barrel gives a significant ballistic advantage though.
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    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    Def get the second model if you can

    Do note mounting a rail /otpic is tricking on the guns ..You need a weird side folding mount if you want to be able to close the gun with the scope on it

    The recoil is a bit more then you would think but not bad

    Get a tube cover if you can
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    VIP Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
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    I had a first gen Sub 2000 in .40 Glock configuration w/ hard chrome finish. It was 100% reliable for me with no problems. My issues with it were more ergonomic and the sights were very...primitive w/ not a lot of other options for the first gen models. It was replaced by a Stag Arms AR-9 carbine that uses the Colt smg 32 rd mags. I love it and it is way more accurate and fun to shoot (for me) than the Sub-2000 was. The big plus for the Sub-2000 is the size and ability to fold. OTOH, I think an AR pistol size wise could do most anything the Sub-2000 could do...and do it better! Just my .02 worth!
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    @5lima30ret . That is true - everything except fold down into 16 inches and of course, an AR-9 upper costs nearly what the Sub-2K costs. There are trade-offs to either one. I have several AR pistols, but none can fold up into the same size package. And, I wanted a 40. 40 AR uppers run as high as $1K. I have no idea why.

    Maybe someone at Palmetto will come up with a 40. They have 9ís and 45ís.
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    Love mine! Here's a post from a year ago:

    Well, fellows - full disclosure!

    I bought a Gen 2 9mm SUB2000 last week, and was just kinda looking for others' impressions. I had been looking at them for a while, but the version that takes M&P 9 mags seemed a little hard to find at a decent price. I finally found one!

    So, MY impressions:

    This is a really slick little range toy! I'm impressed with the workmanship, and it sure folds into a nice little package for a backpack, or under-the-seat stowage in the car. Heck, you could almost fit it into a [big] coat pocket! I've run about 200 rounds of various FMJ, TMJ, and JHP's through it so far with nary a hiccup. Ammo included bullet weights from 115 to 147 gr., including about 1/2 box of 147 gr. Ranger 'T's, and a box of aluminum-cased Blazers, and I'm not really a fan of anything but brass-cased ammo.

    Accuracy was outstanding at about 35 yards. My only real 'complaint' is that I can't get a good cheek weld due to the geometry of the gun, combined with the fact I'm a pretty big guy. With muffs on, forget it! I had to switch to earplugs to be able to use the sights at all. You can't really put higher sights or optics on it without interfering with being able to fold it up. Even with that handicap, though, my 6" steel targets were dead meat at 35 yards! I'm thinking maybe a small laser on the bottom rail would be a worthwhile addition.

    There was a little bit of a learning curve with the takedown/field strip and reassembly, but I got past that in short order, and I'm comfortable with it now. If you should happen to get one of these, read the manual carefully BEFORE you attempt to field strip it. Important lesson learned! Specifically, DO NOT attempt to take it down without it being cocked, and do not drop the hammer while it's disassembled!

    In summary - I love this little carbine! Wish I'd bought one a long time ago!
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    Distinguished Member Array SOS24's Avatar
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    Iím not anowner yet, but been thinking of getting one. As if I didnít need another push about the same time I saw this thread, I get an email advertising them on sale.
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  12. #11
    Member Array mlk18's Avatar
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    I had a 1st gen, thought it was pretty awesome until I ran it through my department's carbine course and broke it into two pieces. The replacement did not fair much better. They are a fun guns and are great for the range, they might even be good for light duty home defense, but they are not durable enough for any kind of serious use. I have been told the 2nd gen versions are tougher, but a coworker tried to run the same course as I did and it did not pass muster.
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    VIP Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    @5lima30ret . That is true - everything except fold down into 16 inches and of course, an AR-9 upper costs nearly what the Sub-2K costs. There are trade-offs to either one. I have several AR pistols, but none can fold up into the same size package. And, I wanted a 40. 40 AR uppers run as high as $1K. I have no idea why.

    Maybe someone at Palmetto will come up with a 40. They have 9ís and 45ís.
    ^^^Agreed!^^^ Not sure why the PCC AR's are so expensive! My Stag Arms is a factory model w/ a dedicated lower and there is no DI gas system so much simpler than a standard AR so they shouldn't be that expensive to produce. If anybody can do it cheaper PSA will probably be the one to do it!
    OldChap likes this.
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    Member Array Screwball216's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirling XD View Post
    MCarbo makes upgrade kits for it, but don't expect and AR15-like trigger pull when you're done. I think mine went from 8.5 lbs to 5.5 lbs. There is still some creep.
    You do the trigger bar, as well? Donít notice any creep with mine. I likened the original trigger somewhere between airsoft and a BB gun. The MCARBO kit, it feels more like a firearm trigger.

    Iím far from someone that needs a great trigger... but it is something I like and willing to invest it. Only requirement... canít be less reliable. Beretta CX4... ran for years stock, but the SierraPapa kit really made it nice (donít feel the price is worth the difference, but is what it is). Tavor... the Geissele trigger and pack really turned me on to a bullpup, especially one with a better trigger than my AR. My M&Ps were all the original Gen 1 guns... which I made identical with Apex (the Pro had the PC sear, but was still crappy compared to Apex).

    What I really want to see is their red dot mount. I have a SIG Romeo 5 sitting in my safe that will go on mine... once they put the mount out. If you are looking to mount a red dot on the forend, I definitely suggest the Performance Services stabilizer. Night and day difference is how solid the forend gets with it.

    I have the nickel-boron .40, which takes M&P magazines (have a 5Ē Pro and Compact to match it). I had some parts done in CPII (CCRís nickel-boron), but had to pull the zinc coated forend screws off. Just looked too cheap/flashy for me. The SUB-2000 might be a truck gun for when I go up to Maine... at least for the short term.
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Got one. Love it... 100% reliable so far and surprisingly accurate.
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    Member Array hrfunk's Avatar
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    So far I'm really liking mine. As I said in the videos, it is a tool for a specific purpose and it fulfills that purpose admirably. It has gone with me to our local schools on numerous occasions in my Red Rock Navigator Bag. It also went Christmas shopping in the same bag using the strap over my shoulder. No one gave it a second look (except one young boy who asked me if I was in the Army!). Even so, if anyone had produced a firearm and started spraying the crowd, I felt like I was better prepared to address the threat than I would have been with a handgun alone (Note: my pistol was also with me on all these occasions for back-up duty and extreme close range engagements where it would have been quicker and easier to deploy than the S2K. The Sub2000 is not an AR and it never will be. It's factory trigger is adequate for defensive applications, but it is not going to be mistaken for a match trigger any time soon. It's accuracy is rather impressive, although the sights are rudimentary at best (you may recall that's one of the parts I upgraded). I'm waiting very impatiently for MCarbo to finalize their optic mount. I'm hoping that will allow a red dot sight option without some of the concerns associated with the Midwest Industries mount. In any case, I'll stick with my S2K for its intended use until it falls apart or something else better comes along.

    Howard

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