Longer-ranged rifle for defense? - Page 2

Longer-ranged rifle for defense?

This is a discussion on Longer-ranged rifle for defense? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by dennis40x As I recall at Parris Island 200-300 & 500Yds were the distances for rifle qualification. With that said in the world ...

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Thread: Longer-ranged rifle for defense?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
    As I recall at Parris Island 200-300 & 500Yds were the distances for rifle qualification. With that said in the world of Walter Mitty, yes one can envision exchanging shots over long to extreme distances. What's the likelihood of occurrence?????? Yes under all things are possible but not likely. Do I shoot long distance, yes with a Remington 40X 7.62mm NATO ( So stamped on the barrel) with RPA (Think England) metallic sights with a front ladder sight for long distance range adjustment. Optics old school, Unertal (?spelling?)
    How big are those targets?
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  2. #17
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    With the heavy woods around here, I'll never be taking a 500-yard shot at anything! I also can't envision a defensive scenario where a 500-yard shot is justifiable, short of a total EOTWAWKI/WROL situation.

    If I did somehow find myself in that situation, though, I'd reach for the FNAR:

    Longer-ranged rifle for defense?-fnar-20011.jpg
    Lightweight, dead-nuts accurate, reliable, and with 20 rounds of 7.62/.308 goodness!
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  3. #18
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    While the .30-06 cartridge is the greatest love of my rifle shooting life, it'd be tough to improve on any of a number of bolt-action .308 rifles and some semi-autos too for most any chore one could reasonably assign to a rifle. The .30 caliber has a lot more going for it when it arrives down range than does the .223.

    As a wonderfully effective alternative to the middling .223/5.56 NATO round, a bolt-action .22-250 is an outstanding choice for those who love .22 bore center fire rifles. I have .220 Swifts here and they are fabulous performers, but the .22-250 gives near .220 Swift velocity performance, equal pinpoint accuracy and effective terminal ballistics on game up to and including Texas whitetail, and all for less expense and trouble locating than the .220 Swift. My dad's had a .22-250 for years and it takes .22 center fire to a much higher level than .223 can.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    I'm trying to think of what threat 500 yards away you're trying to defend yourself from. Not too many home invaders are going to start their move from 500 yards away. To get to you, they're going to have to get closer, and that put them in range of most any round you have. Not too many will press the attack when at 300 yards bullets start zipping past their ears.

    Now if you're just looking for an excuse to get a 500-yard gun, well alrighty then. I'm a big .30-06 fan, but like bmcgilvray mentioned, there a ton of good .308s out there, many sitting in a used gun rack waiting to find a good home.
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  6. #20
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    Thanks everyone. Yes, the odds of needing this are remote...thankfully. Which is why it's not something I would want to invest heavily into.

    And of course, the rifle is just part of it...if I can't find somewhere to practice at distance (and the time to get the practice in), then it's all for naught. No sense having the rifle if I can't make hits with it.

    From a legal and tactical standpoint, taking shots at extended range would be a very extreme and rare occurrence. That said, this area is prone to flooding and hurricanes, so looting and the like is not unheard of.

    Basically, it's a hardware capability I don't have, and not sure I really "need." I long ago gave up on trying to make tiny shot groups at long range from a bench, just don't have the time, patience, and money for it anymore.

    So...I'll probably keep my eyes on the used gun rack for something suitable with a scope. A scoped scout rifle would be ideal, but any "hunting" rifle would do. I actually had a beautiful .270 scoped bolt rifle years ago, a gift from my father-in-law. I ended up giving it back to him, as I never fired it. Wish I still had it now, as it would serve the purpose quite well.
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  7. #21
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    My longer distance home defense/survival/hunting rifles are:

    20" Armalite AR-10 A-4 7.62X51mm with a Burris 3X-12X-50mm XTR scope
    23.62" CZ 550 .308 bolt-action with a Vortex Viper PST 6X-24X-50mm FFP scope
    18.7" Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 bolt-action with peep sights.
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    My own experience with Savage axis rifles is that they will do the job easily to 300 yards. In order to get them to 500 you will need a better scope and a solid platform to shoot from. The plastic stocks don't respond well to bipod use, or a hasty sling.
    But with a good stock and a scope capable of long distance shooting precision 500 yards is not out of the question.
    Our son has one in 308. And a cousin has one in 270. I'd shoot one as a deer rifle. DR
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  9. #23
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    I'll stick with one of my Rem. 700 30 06, I shoot em fin to 300 yards, a little more practice I'll be hitting fine with the glass
    at 500 ; )
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSKnight View Post
    ...If I were going to get something specific for long distance HD/SD I think I would go with a .308 upper for an AR and mount some quality glass on it.
    If you're going to do that, better plan on a .308 lower as well!
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Now that we're in Texas, the terrain is much different than when we were in the Land of Mu, where max visibility was 150 yards. While there are homes in all directions, the flat terrain here means that there are some sight lines that extend for quite a long way.

    I have several options for the most likely scenario of short range defensive needs...pistols, a PC carbine, Mini 14, shotguns, etc. I'm considering selling some of those off, and adding a capability I don't really have...a rifle that can reach out to 500 yards or so.

    Now, the odds of needing such a rifle would be very low. In the event of a threat at distance, taking cover and calling the calvary is the best option. Yet, the possibility exists.
    Just a note to a mountaineer. Calvary is a place. Cavalry is a unit.

    As such, I wouldn't want to invest a lot into this. I'm thinking an inexpensive package bolt hunting rifle with a scope in .308 would suffice, maybe with the addition of a bipod. I would prefer iron backup sights and at least a 10 rd capacity, but that pushes you into the "scout" rifles that tend to cost quite a bit more. Maybe a scout rifle off the used rack?

    A semi auto in .308 or similar would work too, but at the expense of cost and weight.

    I do have a Marlin 336 lever gun in .30-30. With the LeveRevolution ammo, it can reach out there with the right hold over. Might take a few ranging shots, but buying the right ammo is cheaper than a new gun.

    And there is the option of mounting a scope on my Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. I know, it's not the most accurate option at distance, and I don't know I trust 5.56 at 500 yards, yet it should dissuade all but the most dedicated to try their luck elsewhere.

    So...thoughts and suggestions? Thanks in advance.
    I have no problem with 5.56 out to 600 yards or more in an AR, BUT, and this one is expensive, you do need a 1:7 heavy barrel and some fine tuning of the upper receiver/bolt to be minute of badguy at that range. You also would need to use heavy bullets -75-77 grain and up. (hence the 1:7 barrel twist)

    A .308 is much more efficient. A bolt will be the most accurate - the Remington 700 Police is an excellent one that will do the work at those distances.

    Longer-ranged rifle for defense?-4fffe9cb0fb154d87ae569b3b5a29633.jpg

    I don't know about how accurate they are, but Palmetto State Armory now offers an AR-10 (308) and buying the upper and lower you can put one together for around $500, without optics. And note the 308 AR requires a dedicated lower, but you can run a number of more potent calibers with that lower.

    If you can sneak it by the Mrs, one of these will allow that kind of accuracy out to 1,000 or maybe a bit more. These are super nice rifles. Everybody deserves one in a lifetime.

    https://www.gaprecision.net/custom-p...ll-rifles.html

    EDIT TO ADD: Do you really need anything like this? Probably not. But who said anything about NEED. The question is what do you WANT?
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  12. #26
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    I will have to admit this. On the only occasion that I put my beloved pre-64 Winchester Model 70 .30-06 to work shooting for group at 600+ yards, it was not a pretty sight.

    I was once on a deer lease in Coke County Texas which had a section of the Colorado River flowing through it, curving against a high mesa. I was regularly shooting lots of high-power competition at the time and got to thinking that I was "studly" enough to take some long distance deer from off the rim of that mesa, shooting down on them in the wide mesquite flat that spread out from across the river.

    So, one hot summer day months before opening of deer season I lugged rifle, ammo, sand bags and spotting scope up the back side of the mesa, hiked to the rim I had chosen as a vantage point and tried out this theory. I had obtained a washing machine box and had separated the four sides, placed suitable targets on them, and positioned them throughout this flat. No range finding equipment was at hand so my wildest estimate had these targets positioned 600 to 750 yards from my shooting position. The estimate was purely eyeballing it and referring to experience competing at 600 yards.

    This proved to be a humbling experience. In the first place the spotting scope was worthless at those distances, something I should have considered. I had ranged the targets pretty well so had groups on the sides of the boxes when I went down to study them, however none were better than about what would hold an 8-ring at 600 yards in a high-power match. This was no better than my abilities with the M1 and its standard sights. I was chagrined to find that my sub-1-inch loads at 100 yards were not capable of dependably hitting a deer in the bread basket, even at the closest "600 yard" target. I was glad I discovered this prior to attempting to hunt there during deer season.

    Why was this? I've never again attempted long range shooting with the rifle since so don't know for certain. Perhaps the 150 grain Sierra spitzer boat tail wasn't a best choice for the distances involved. Perhaps the load behind the bullet was wound a bit too tight. Perhaps the Leupold 6X scope was a bit feeble. Perhaps the shooter wasn't as "studly" as he thought he was. Anyway 2 foot groups would keep an adversary ducking and dodging at the very least and a lucky hit would fell him, but isn't precise enough for collecting venison.

    If I had it to do over, I'd probably select a 180 grain Sierra boat tail, work on load development, and add some scope capabilities. As it is, 300 yards with the hunting rifles and sighting equipment on hand is far enough for my purposes. A few deer have been effectively gathered from a bit farther out than that, but one notable occasion found two solid misses at a pre-measured (well, paced out) 300 yards on the same silly doe that was foolish enough not to skedaddle after the first shot.

    It's not a given that the rifle/cartridge/sighting equipment of one's dreams will provide a satisfactory accuracy performance, put to the test when the distances become truly extended. When a combination is discovered to work, it is most gratifying.

    Here's the view from near the shooting vantage point, the photograph taken some years later in winter time when the leaves were off the mesquite.
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  13. #27
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    @bmcgilvray Yup...truth is the Indian is far more important than the bow and arrow.
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  14. #28
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    Long range home defense? I'm having trouble wrapping around this but I guess it doesn't hurt to be prepared if Humungus and the gang were to start stirring up dust on the horizon.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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  15. #29
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    For a 10th Mountain guy, I would think an M1 Garand would fit a lot of those rolls.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doghandler View Post
    How big are those targets?
    The 200Yd Bulls eye target standard NRA the 10-ring is 7in diameter and the X-Ring is 3in diameter, can't locate my NRA booklet that gives the dimensions of the scoring rings at other distances. If you go online the National Target Company in their catalog should have the dimensions listed. As for Parris Island that's fifty-five years in the past if my memory services me correctly that was a mix of bullseye and humanoid shaped targets

    Later on the Marine Corps introduced a qualification course I believe referred to as the X-Course all humanoid shaped targets ( head to waist, shoulder to waist angled, half shoulder width and full width head to knee) I only fired that course one time.

    On the island I qualified Marksman, after Viet-Nam qualified Sharpshooter and finally Expert with the rifle with the 1911A1 I always qualified Expert.

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