Advantages and Disadvantages of Open Carry vs Concealed carry? - Page 16

Advantages and Disadvantages of Open Carry vs Concealed carry?

This is a discussion on Advantages and Disadvantages of Open Carry vs Concealed carry? within the Featured Topics forums, part of the Welcome To DefensiveCarry.com category; Originally Posted by Wavygravy So, @ forester58 -- I can't have the opinion that open carry (especially ostentatious open carry in public places like WalMart) ...

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  1. #226
    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavygravy View Post
    So, @forester58 -- I can't have the opinion that open carry (especially ostentatious open carry in public places like WalMart) in light of the myriad of recent mass shootings is stupid without being anti-2A? Without being one of "Them?"
    I thought more highly of you than that.
    Not what I intended my friend but, I can understand it coming off that way. I have to agree that stupid is as stupid does but, how does that make my OC stupid too? Not saying you would say that but, in general that is how some responses come out.
    One fool in a Walmart does not justify an anti OC attitude to me any more than one idiot shooting his nuts off determines my feelings about AIWB. Idiots get all the press. We can all agree about the idiots without dividing gun owners into little slots can we not?
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  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    I realize I am venting but, dang, we are our own worst enemies when someone afraid of OC puts down, with personal insults to boot,someone who is not. I don't OC everywhere as some places in my mind just are not prudent. I spent the last 5 days OCing, granted mostly backcountry but, some small town convenient stores, the RV dump station, the grocery store. I left my gun on my belt vs leaving it in the truck unsecured. There were 7 others I saw carrying a handgun openly. We have wolves and Grizzly bears here, lots of them, the OC handgun is just a tool like a Leatherman or a flashlight. Its not a political statement, a "macho" display or any of those insults being thrown at OCers. Concealed carry is just too damned slow to save your hide. That's it and that's all.
    The anti's have actually changed much of their focus from legislating to corporate pressure and local ordinance changes to whittle away at the option to carry and own guns of all kinds. They don't care about the 2A, they think they have found a better way around it than a direct attack. I think they are right about that too.
    I hadn't read that follow-up post until just now. The OC you just described in your life and area is perfectly understandable, acceptable, and prudent imo. Any "insults" I have thrown against OCers as being a "macho display," if you will read my post carefully, are related to location and circumstances. For example, my pics of the tricked-out pickup and the Lamborghini were prefaced with captions saying "if you are only driving this to your desk job, grocery store, or around town" (or something to that effect).
    OC in the semi-rural Western U.S. is much more common than elsewhere, and for good reason.

    Bikenut said "There was a time in this Nation when OC of both pistols and long guns was the norm and it was criminals who CC'd in order to have an element of surprise when they attacked their victims."
    I grew up in the rural South. Guns weren't hidden, but nobody OCed around town (except the cops) even then unless they were going hunting afterwards or beforehand. It's not like everybody used to OC "back in the good ol' days" and it's all being threatened suddenly. I'm not an anti-2A. I'm not, however, going to become a 2A activist and poster-boy. I don't think either attitude is productive.
    I'm proud of being an American. I'm proud of being a combat vet. I'm proud to have served my country. Don't ANY of you think otherwise. If my belief that OC of long guns and handguns in places where it will cause hysteria and fear in this modern society is stupid makes me one of "Them" -- so be it.
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  3. #228
    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavygravy View Post
    I hadn't read that follow-up post until just now. The OC you just described in your life and area is perfectly understandable, acceptable, and prudent imo. Any "insults" I have thrown against OCers as being a "macho display," if you will read my post carefully, are related to location and circumstances. For example, my pics of the tricked-out pickup and the Lamborghini were prefaced with captions saying "if you are only driving this to your desk job, grocery store, or around town" (or something to that effect).
    OC in the semi-rural Western U.S. is much more common than elsewhere, and for good reason.

    Bikenut said "There was a time in this Nation when OC of both pistols and long guns was the norm and it was criminals who CC'd in order to have an element of surprise when they attacked their victims."
    I grew up in the rural South. Guns weren't hidden, but nobody OCed around town (except the cops) even then unless they were going hunting afterwards or beforehand. It's not like everybody used to OC "back in the good ol' days" and it's all being threatened suddenly. I'm not an anti-2A. I'm not, however, going to become a 2A activist and poster-boy. I don't think either attitude is productive.
    I'm proud of being an American. I'm proud of being a combat vet. I'm proud to have served my country. Don't ANY of you think otherwise. If my belief that OC of long guns and handguns in places where it will cause hysteria and fear in this modern society makes me one of "Them" -- so be it.
    I appreciate your follow up. Keeps me grounded and its what discussion is all about. If I saw a guy wearing "tactical" military type stuff in the backcountry here it would not get positive feedback vs some cowboy hunting Bighorn sheep wearing a large bore revolver.
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  5. #229
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Anti gunners believe no one should carry a gun of any kind in any way in any place.

    Oddly enough there are many in the gun community who believe only special people should carry the kinds of guns they consider acceptable in ways they approve of but only in places they personally consider appropriate.
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    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

  6. #230
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    I believe in the right to open carry...just prefer to conceal to not bring attention.
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    https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...nds-open-carry -- Greg Ellifritz

    "...“I support the right, not the practice.” I agree with him 100%.

    " Not everyone feels the same way I do. Some continually tout open carry as a way to educate the populace and a way to provide a visible deterrent against crime. In my experience, open carry does neither.

    Seeing visibly armed and strangely-attired open carriers out in public often scares the very population who gun rights advocates are trying to court. Does anyone really think walking into Starbucks with a slung AK-47 will convince a person who doesn’t currently own a firearm to support the gun rights cause? Think again. I believe that open carry advocates cause far more problems than they solve."
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  8. #232
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavygravy View Post
    https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...nds-open-carry -- Greg Ellifritz

    "...“I support the right, not the practice.” I agree with him 100%.

    " Not everyone feels the same way I do. Some continually tout open carry as a way to educate the populace and a way to provide a visible deterrent against crime. In my experience, open carry does neither.

    Seeing visibly armed and strangely-attired open carriers out in public often scares the very population who gun rights advocates are trying to court. Does anyone really think walking into Starbucks with a slung AK-47 will convince a person who doesn’t currently own a firearm to support the gun rights cause? Think again. I believe that open carry advocates cause far more problems than they solve."
    Here we go again.
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  9. #233
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavygravy View Post
    https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...nds-open-carry -- Greg Ellifritz

    "...“I support the right, not the practice.” I agree with him 100%.

    " Not everyone feels the same way I do. Some continually tout open carry as a way to educate the populace and a way to provide a visible deterrent against crime. In my experience, open carry does neither.

    Seeing visibly armed and strangely-attired open carriers out in public often scares the very population who gun rights advocates are trying to court. Does anyone really think walking into Starbucks with a slung AK-47 will convince a person who doesn’t currently own a firearm to support the gun rights cause? Think again. I believe that open carry advocates cause far more problems than they solve."
    And there still is what happened in Michigan when a very few people decided to open carry in public as they went about their normal day. Up until then most folks were afraid to open carry because it might cause people to freak out and call the cops.

    Well people did freak out because the gun community had hid their guns for so long the public was not accustomed to seeing guns. Those open carriers also endured ridicule and insults from those in the gun community who said many of the same things being said in this discussion. The media went nuts covering the sensational news of those open carriers being arrested for flaunting their guns in places where many (including concealed carriers) were of the opinion it wasn't needed, wasn't appropriate, and just was not acceptable. Then the media also covered the stories of the open carriers going to court and winning their cases.

    The end result was the media educated the people of Michigan that open carry was legal, the police were trained in how NOT to interact with open carriers, and open carry became an accepted thing for the public to see. I would consider that open carrying solving more problems than it caused.

    Now folks are entitled to their opinions but the above is an actual example of how open carry educated the public and became accepted by the public and even the police because a few folks had the courage to stand up. And I am of the opinion that if folks in the gun community had been open carrying for the past 4 or 5 decades instead of being afraid of being shamed and shunned open carry, even of long guns, would not be a problem because the public would have become accustomed to seeing guns every day.
    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

  10. #234
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    I appreciate your follow up. Keeps me grounded and its what discussion is all about. If I saw a guy wearing "tactical" military type stuff in the backcountry here it would not get positive feedback vs some cowboy hunting Bighorn sheep wearing a large bore revolver.
    I think someone walking around with a drop leg holster is kind of weird, but to each their own. It’s amazing to me that I can dress up in a suit and carry OWB with my jacket covering it and it’s perfectly fine, but the minute it gets warm and I take my jacket off, I’m trying to be “macho”.
    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

    This is America. I have the right to go places. You have the right to stay home. You have the right to be upset about me going places. I have the right to not care.

  11. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavygravy View Post
    @jeffery R --"...With this type of thinking applied to other areas of life I can only conclude that people with big trucks and/or expensive cars have self esteem issues or think they are...macho..."

    I'm not Russ, but will throw this out there.

    Do you drive a big tricked-out truck to your desk job and the grocery store, never needing it for hauling, towing, or off-roading?

    Then yes, you "have self-esteem issues or think you are...macho..." imo.
    Do you have an expensive car that you only drive around town to the grocery store and post office and never go over 55 mph?

    Then yes, you "have self-esteem issues or think you are...macho..." imo.
    Good point wavygravy. Self esteem is an important part of our lives. I look at an 8,000 lb lifted truck with huge tires and silently ask: "Why?" It's a terrible choice for off roading, for weight is an enemy of rough terrain travel. I've done several thousand miles if off roading in UTV's and
    man, it takes a light weight machine with lots of suspension to successfully navigate. But, as my Mom used to say: "It's everybody's taste to do what they want, said the old lady as she kissed the cow."

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  12. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    There are some OC'ers who think they are hot macho stuff with their gun in plain sight and there are CC'ers who think they are hot macho stuff because they have a super ninja element of surprise secret.

    And then there are folks who CC because it suits their lifestyle and needs just as there are OC'ers who OC for the same reasons.

    However, at least in my opinion, there is a valid reason for OC beyond self defense and that is to show there is a right to bear arms. That is a reason that CC will never have.

    Edited to add:
    There was a time in this Nation when OC of both pistols and long guns was the norm and it was criminals who CC'd in order to have an element of surprise when they attacked their victims.
    The passage of time and the steady drumbeat of mass shootings will eventually spell the doom of unregulated gun ownership in America, The upcoming generation of young people are intolerant of guns, believing that no one should have the capability of killing a human at a distance on a whim. What they fail to realize, however, is that effective enforcement of anti gun laws will piss them off more than does mass shootings.

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  13. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ_Reese View Post
    Good point wavygravy. Self esteem is an important part of our lives. I look at an 8,000 lb lifted truck with huge tires and silently ask: "Why?" It's a terrible choice for off roading, for weight is an enemy of rough terrain travel. I've done several thousand miles if off roading in UTV's and
    man, it takes a light weight machine with lots of suspension to successfully navigate. But, as my Mom used to say: "It's everybody's taste to do what they want, said the old lady as she kissed the cow."

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    What makes it bad for off-roading? Who says the person even plans to go off road in it? However, for the sake of discussion, there are different types of off-roading. Some people go drive in the mud, some people go rock crawling and driving on trails, and some people go out on the dunes, and different vehicle setups are better for each situation. There are pictures and videos of what some people consider “mall crawlers” getting airborne on the dunes in Pismo. Everyone is so quick to be critical of other people but they only want to see things from their own perspective.
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    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

    This is America. I have the right to go places. You have the right to stay home. You have the right to be upset about me going places. I have the right to not care.

  14. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    What makes it bad for off-roading? Who says the person even plans to go off road in it? However, for the sake of discussion, there are different types of off-roading. Some people go drive in the mud, some people go rock crawling and driving on trails, and some people go out on the dunes, and different vehicle setups are better for each situation. There are pictures and videos of what some people consider “mall crawlers” getting airborne on the dunes in Pismo. Everyone is so quick to be critical of other people but they only want to see things from their own perspective.
    Havok: Man you really made a powerful argument. Especially the last sentence. I occasionally watch you tube trucks mudding and jumping. I marvel at the costs to modify these trucks and the willingness to destroy them.

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  15. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    I realize I am venting but, dang, we are our own worst enemies when someone afraid of OC puts down, with personal insults to boot,someone who is not. I don't OC everywhere as some places in my mind just are not prudent. I spent the last 5 days OCing, granted mostly backcountry but, some small town convenient stores, the RV dump station, the grocery store. I left my gun on my belt vs leaving it in the truck unsecured. There were 7 others I saw carrying a handgun openly. We have wolves and Grizzly bears here, lots of them, the OC handgun is just a tool like a Leatherman or a flashlight. Its not a political statement, a "macho" display or any of those insults being thrown at OCers. Concealed carry is just too damned slow to save your hide. That's it and that's all.
    The anti's have actually changed much of their focus from legislating to corporate pressure and local ordinance changes to whittle away at the option to carry and own guns of all kinds. They don't care about the 2A, they think they have found a better way around it than a direct attack. I think they are right about that too.
    Forester58: You have nade a good moderate comment, and for what my opinion is worth, i like it. The problem, as I see it, is that OC states do not "vet" OC folks, anyone can OC. That includes a gang banger, a serial killer, a heroin addict, or a white supremist with some loose screws. There is no way that the average person can know the mentality of an OC'er. So, emotions kick in and overrule any argument about the positive aspects of OC. It's like walking down a path where a rattlesnake lurks; the critter may, or may not, bite you, depends on how the snake feels at the moment.

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  16. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ_Reese View Post
    Forester58: You have nade a good moderate comment, and for what my opinion is worth, i like it. The problem, as I see it, is that OC states do not "vet" OC folks, anyone can OC. That includes a gang banger, a serial killer, a heroin addict, or a white supremist with some loose screws. There is no way that the average person can know the mentality of an OC'er. So, emotions kick in and overrule any argument about the positive aspects of OC. It's like walking down a path where a rattlesnake lurks; the critter may, or may not, bite you, depends on how the snake feels at the moment.

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    I would rather take my chances with those people carrying over allowing government to infringe on the rights of other people. Those gang bangers don’t leave their guns at home in the non constitutional carry states, nor do they open carry where it’s legs.
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    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

    This is America. I have the right to go places. You have the right to stay home. You have the right to be upset about me going places. I have the right to not care.

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