Questions on Out of state handgun sales scenarios....

Questions on Out of state handgun sales scenarios....

This is a discussion on Questions on Out of state handgun sales scenarios.... within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Two questions.... 1. Is it legal to make a strictly private handgun sale to someone living in another state? For example, if someone residing in ...

Results 1 to 15 of 15
Like Tree33Likes
  • 1 Post By Swedishsteel
  • 9 Post By Rock and Glock
  • 4 Post By Rock and Glock
  • 1 Post By 1942bull
  • 8 Post By CWOUSCG
  • 1 Post By dangerranger
  • 2 Post By Rock and Glock
  • 2 Post By Rock and Glock
  • 1 Post By Rockymonster
  • 4 Post By Rock and Glock

Thread: Questions on Out of state handgun sales scenarios....

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array Rockymonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Idaho!
    Posts
    2,000

    Questions on Out of state handgun sales scenarios....

    Two questions....

    1. Is it legal to make a strictly private handgun sale to someone living in another state? For example, if someone residing in Montana wanted to purchase a handgun from someone residing in Colorado. Is it legal to do without going through an FFL dealer in either state?

    2. Can a person legally sell a handgun to an FFL dealer in a different state without going through an FFL dealer in his own state?

    I realize that some states have different restrictions on sales, but these are general questions.
    "Once that bell rings, you're on your own. It's just you and the other guy.” - Joe Lewis

    “I’m not obsessive about cleaning my guns. I like them like my martinis and my women....a ‘little’ dirty.....”

    Member: GOA, SAF






  2. #2
    Member Array Swedishsteel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Central Indiana (where the ice sheets stopped)
    Posts
    83
    I can not speak to specifics relative to Montana and Colorado but your question defines the discomfiture some lawmakers express relative to gun show exemptions in Indiana.

    It is very common for people from Illinois to attend gun shows in Indiana and purchase firearms in the parking lot without ever even entering the show's formal venue, often a county fairground or auction house. It is also common in communities near the Indiana/Illinois border for residents to sell or trade guns with co-workers, buddies or relatives who live within 10 miles of their home but on the other side of the imaginary line that forms the states' borders. As you might know, Indiana and Illinois have radically different perspectives and statues on gun ownership and use, especially handguns.

    These sales are typically concluded without any paperwork transaction or transfer documentation and certainly without any background check.
    Rockymonster likes this.

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    404 Page Not Found
    Posts
    22,130

    Exclamation

    Here’s the first resource: NRA - ILA

    Second resource: State Links

    Also look at Handgunlaw.us

    This, however, is the final answer: BATFE

    Shorthand: Do not do this!



    An unlicensed individual is prohibited from directly transferring a firearm to a person residing in another State.

    Regardless of the purpose of the transfer (e.g. gift, trade, loan, sale, ownership, etc.), this restriction applies to all types of firearms.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here



    "If we suppose them sincere, we must pity their ignorance; if insincere, we must abhor the spirit of deception which it betrays." Alexander Hamilton

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    404 Page Not Found
    Posts
    22,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Swedishsteel View Post
    I can not speak to specifics relative to Montana and Colorado but your question defines the discomfiture some lawmakers express relative to gun show exemptions in Indiana.

    It is very common for people from Illinois to attend gun shows in Indiana and purchase firearms in the parking lot without ever even entering the show's formal venue, often a county fairground or auction house. It is also common in communities near the Indiana/Illinois border for residents to sell or trade guns with co-workers, buddies or relatives who live within 10 miles of their home but on the other side of the imaginary line that forms the states' borders. As you might know, Indiana and Illinois have radically different perspectives and statues on gun ownership and use, especially handguns.

    These sales are typically concluded without any paperwork transaction or transfer documentation and certainly without any background check.
    These are also illegal.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here



    "If we suppose them sincere, we must pity their ignorance; if insincere, we must abhor the spirit of deception which it betrays." Alexander Hamilton

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member
    Array 1942bull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    1,855
    There are no simple answers to your questions. It depends upon the locations of the buyer and seller, state laws, and federal law. If the laws has not changesd without my noticing, in PA a private sale between to PA residents can be made without an FFL except for a handgun. All handgun sales in PA must go through FFL.

    Here is what th NRA has to say:https://www.nrablog.com/articles/201...ate-gun-sales/
    Rockymonster likes this.
    USMC 9/59 through 9/69
    Vietnam June ‘66 to February ‘68
    MOS: 4641, Combat Photographer

    Memberships:
    Gun Owners of America
    Second Amendment Foundation
    Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Against Crime

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Baja Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,786
    FFS, haven't y'all heard of the Gun Control Act of 1968? It is illegal to sell a handgun across state lines without going through an FFL dealer.


    Send bachelors and come heavily armed.

    Black Rifles Matter

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Exact center of CA
    Posts
    5,358
    Just like every good rule there are exceptions. If the seller who is "IN Montana" No mater what state he is from may sell to a Montana resident. Unless there is state or county laws preventing it. This is how you get so many unlicensed dealers from out of state at big shows like OK City, Phoenix, etc... They can sell, but without that license they can't buy! DR
    Rockymonster likes this.

  9. #8
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    404 Page Not Found
    Posts
    22,130
    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    Just like every good rule there are exceptions. If the seller who is "IN Montana" No mater what state he is from may sell to a Montana resident. Unless there is state or county laws preventing it. This is how you get so many unlicensed dealers from out of state at big shows like OK City, Phoenix, etc... They can sell, but without that license they can't buy! DR
    Maybe the BATFE Q&A and Best Practice Guide I cited are incorrect and a leap of logic, but this is from the BATFE website:


    An unlicensed individual may transfer a firearm to another unlicensed individual residing in the same State, provided that he or she has no reason to believe the buyer is prohibited by law from possessing firearms.
    This requires both to reside in the same state. The Supremacy Clause makes any state exception null and void.

    Unless you want to play with the big boys.

    The BATFE may have run fast and loose when they wrote the guide, but this is their field recommendations.

    BATFE Best Practices
    CWOUSCG and spclopr8tr like this.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here



    "If we suppose them sincere, we must pity their ignorance; if insincere, we must abhor the spirit of deception which it betrays." Alexander Hamilton

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Exact center of CA
    Posts
    5,358
    I don't think I'm wrong, The Guide does not say both, that was added in your comments. If you read farther down the guide where it talks about what information you "Should " retain it asks for the buyers address, State Id' etc.. But makes no mention of the sellers state Id.

    Does this mean I could never be prosecuted? NO. It means I have read the law [ not just the guide] and believe I'm covered both by the law and past established practice. And I have a lawyer that says he would defend me. DR

  11. #10
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    404 Page Not Found
    Posts
    22,130
    I don't think I'm wrong, The Guide does not say both, that was added in your comments.
    No, I did not add that comment. It says, verbatim: "An unlicensed individual may transfer a firearm to another unlicensed individual residing in the same State, provided that he or she has no reason to believe the buyer is prohibited by law from possessing firearms."

    That is verbatim, from the very first bullet in the BATFE page.

    It says residing in the same state.

    You are correct in that direct quote was not included in my previous posts, only the most recent, above.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    Now I am confusing myself.
    CLASS3NH and OD* like this.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here



    "If we suppose them sincere, we must pity their ignorance; if insincere, we must abhor the spirit of deception which it betrays." Alexander Hamilton

  12. #11
    VIP Member
    Array Rockymonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Idaho!
    Posts
    2,000
    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    Just like every good rule there are exceptions. If the seller who is "IN Montana" No mater what state he is from may sell to a Montana resident. Unless there is state or county laws preventing it. This is how you get so many unlicensed dealers from out of state at big shows like OK City, Phoenix, etc... They can sell, but without that license they can't buy! DR
    Where is this stated in the ATF Rules? Can you prove this is accurate? Seems pretty ambiguous.....
    "Once that bell rings, you're on your own. It's just you and the other guy.” - Joe Lewis

    “I’m not obsessive about cleaning my guns. I like them like my martinis and my women....a ‘little’ dirty.....”

    Member: GOA, SAF






  13. #12
    VIP Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Baja Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,786
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockymonster View Post
    Where is this stated in the ATF Rules? Can you prove this is accurate? Seems pretty ambiguous.....
    It's not, the rules are/law is quite clear - no private or commercial sales between parties who live in different states without going though an FFL. This is for handguns, buying a rifle or shotgun across state lines is allowed however state laws do apply to that. IOW, when Sister and I lived in WI because we knew we were not staying for long we kept our original states of residence, OR for me and SC for her. She had to buy rifle/shotgun we may or may not! have bought as OR did not allow it's residents to purchase from any state that does not border it.


    Send bachelors and come heavily armed.

    Black Rifles Matter

  14. #13
    VIP Member
    Array Rockymonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Idaho!
    Posts
    2,000
    Quote Originally Posted by CWOUSCG View Post
    It's not, the rules are/law is quite clear - no private or commercial sales between parties who live in different states without going though an FFL. This is for handguns, buying a rifle or shotgun across state lines is allowed however state laws do apply to that. IOW, when Sister and I lived in WI because we knew we were not staying for long we kept our original states of residence, OR for me and SC for her. She had to buy rifle/shotgun we may or may not! have bought as OR did not allow it's residents to purchase from any state that does not border it.
    Yes, and I agree with you, however, dangerranger does not and his answer seems ambiguous.....
    CWOUSCG likes this.
    "Once that bell rings, you're on your own. It's just you and the other guy.” - Joe Lewis

    “I’m not obsessive about cleaning my guns. I like them like my martinis and my women....a ‘little’ dirty.....”

    Member: GOA, SAF






  15. #14
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    404 Page Not Found
    Posts
    22,130
    Just an aside, “unlicensed dealers” is oxymoronic, is it not?
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here



    "If we suppose them sincere, we must pity their ignorance; if insincere, we must abhor the spirit of deception which it betrays." Alexander Hamilton

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Exact center of CA
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Just an aside, “unlicensed dealers” is oxymoronic, is it not?
    It is, I should have said Unlicensed Seller. DR

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •