Question regarding private party transfers

Question regarding private party transfers

This is a discussion on Question regarding private party transfers within the FFL Dealer Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This is a question for FFLs. I have a couple of guns I am going to sell to my wife. Private party transfers are legal ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    Question regarding private party transfers

    This is a question for FFLs.

    I have a couple of guns I am going to sell to my wife. Private party transfers are legal here in Utah.

    Is there anything I need to do other than create a bill of sale that shows she now owns the firearms?

    Is there any good reason why I should take these transactions through a local FFL?
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    I'm not an FFL, just offering info:

    For an in-state transaction, state rules apply. Your state may specify compliance per Fed regulations, but as long as you are selling to a legal resident (didn't say citizen) of both the US and your state, state rules are the limiting factor. I'm guessing your wife is at least 18 (!) so even handgun sales between legal citizens in your state are OK.

    Google "private sale of handguns in [your state]" and you'll find what I believe to be the definitive answer.
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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'm not an FFL, just offering info:

    For an in-state transaction, state rules apply. Your state may specify compliance per Fed regulations, but as long as you are selling to a legal resident (didn't say citizen) of both the US and your state, state rules are the limiting factor. I'm guessing your wife is at least 18 (!) so even handgun sales between legal citizens in your state are OK.

    Google "private sale of handguns in [your state]" and you'll find what I believe to be the definitive answer.
    Thanks. I understand what you're saying, just trying to see if there is something that may be "common" knowledge, but isn't written down anywhere. Obviously, there are reasons for and against doing the transfer through an FFL, even if it is perfectly legal to do person to person transactions.

    What comes to mind immediately is that if you had some type of incident and an overzealous prosecutor wanted to hang you, having the transfer documented by an FFL would give you a way to show you were a buttoned up, by the book person. But, is that really important??? I don't know, that's why I am asking.
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    We do person to person transactions all the time here in GA without any issue. Typically we get a copy of the persons carry permit to prove they aren't a prohibited person and a bill of sale for each party and go our merry way.
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    Gramps and I have shared guns and traded guns between each other. In our wills, everything that belongs to one of us goes to the other one who is left. I may be missing something but I don't see a need for a bill of sale between husband and wife unless you have two separate "estates." I could be wrong though. It would not be the first time.
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    Proceed with a bill of sale specifying "in receipt of a valuable consideration" instead of a dollar amount. Both of you sign it and date it. Make a copy, but put the original in an envelope and send it to yourself via registered mail. Do not open it, and put it in your safe. If the day comes when the legality of the transfer is questioned, under subpoena and/or advice of counsel you provide the unopened registered letter.

    Still overkill, but this establishes when the transaction occurred and based on today's laws, it was legal when it occurred.
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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Proceed with a bill of sale specifying "in receipt of a valuable consideration" instead of a dollar amount. Both of you sign it and date it. Make a copy, but put the original in an envelope and send it to yourself via registered mail. Do not open it, and put it in your safe. If the day comes when the legality of the transfer is questioned, under subpoena and/or advice of counsel you provide the unopened registered letter.

    Still overkill, but this establishes when the transaction occurred and based on today's laws, it was legal when it occurred.
    I like that. Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    This is a question for FFLs.

    I have a couple of guns I am going to sell to my wife. Private party transfers are legal here in Utah.

    Is there anything I need to do other than create a bill of sale that shows she now owns the firearms?

    Is there any good reason why I should take these transactions through a local FFL?
    Do you live in a community-property state? (Most states are.)
    If you do, then what's yours is hers, and what's hers is yours.
    ...Unless you brought those guns, which you owned previously, with you into the marriage.

    But still, there shouldn't be a need to actually sell your guns to your wife.
    It may be sufficient to merely declare them, on a signed paper, to have been entered into community property.

    However, the whole thing may be tricky in your state, and the advice of an attorney should be sought.
    A short 'phone call may suffice: It's a property question, not a firearms question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    Do you live in a community-property state? (Most states are.)
    If you do, then what's yours is hers, and what's hers is yours.
    ...Unless you brought those guns, which you owned previously, with you into the marriage.

    But still, there shouldn't be a need to actually sell your guns to your wife.
    It may be sufficient to merely declare them, on a signed paper, to have been entered into community property.

    However, the whole thing may be tricky in your state, and the advice of an attorney should be sought.
    A short 'phone call may suffice: It's a property question, not a firearms question.
    Just looked it up and Utah is NOT a community property state. Doesn't surprise me since women tend to be treated as second class citizens to a certain extent here. When we bought our house, they put my wife second on the title, even though I told them to list her first. On our joint bank account, my wife's name does not appear until the third page. When we bought our Roxor jeep this summer, my wife's name did not even appear on the title, even though we filled out the paperwork jointly at the dealer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    Just looked it up and Utah is NOT a community property state. Doesn't surprise me since women tend to be treated as second class citizens to a certain extent here. When we bought our house, they put my wife second on the title, even though I told them to list her first. On our joint bank account, my wife's name does not appear until the third page. When we bought our Roxor jeep this summer, my wife's name did not even appear on the title, even though we filled out the paperwork jointly at the dealer.
    I believe that you need to briefly consult a property lawyer.
    I would, were I you.
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    Since transfers are legal between legal adults in your state without any paperwork. You need none between you and your wife. Unless the guns are held in Trust, your business owns them, or there is some worry that one of you will be in legal trouble. This would be a quick deed agreement between the two of you to prevent confiscation. Since I doubt either of you have those kinds of things going on in your lives, its probably not necessary. DR
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    Even in Oregon, which outlaws private transfers, it is legal to transfer between immediate family without paperwork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Proceed with a bill of sale specifying "in receipt of a valuable consideration" instead of a dollar amount. Both of you sign it and date it. Make a copy, but put the original in an envelope and send it to yourself via registered mail. Do not open it, and put it in your safe. If the day comes when the legality of the transfer is questioned, under subpoena and/or advice of counsel you provide the unopened registered letter.

    Still overkill, but this establishes when the transaction occurred and based on today's laws, it was legal when it occurred.
    In some states a bill of sale is not legal unless a specific amount of money is stated. The proper wording in those states would be:

    "In receipt of one dollar ($1.00), US currency, and other valuable considerations".............etc.

    I'm not a lawyer but have done several bills of sale over the years.
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    @G26Raven Brother in most states, you do not need to "sell" anything to your wife. By law, when you got married, everything the two of you own (and everything purchased since) is deemed community property. What belongs to you is hers, and what belongs to her is yours. I would consult a local attorney, but I doubt that any bill of sale between legally married people would ever rise to the level of being exempt from the law of community property.

    Check with a lawyer.

    EDIT Sorry I didn't read post #9. You need to visit with a local attorney. You could begin here...

    https://statelaws.findlaw.com/utah-l...erty-laws.html

    And I will add the disclaimer that I pray this doesn't portend any marital disharmony....
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    My wife and I have always had things "jointly". As a matter of fact, most of our accounts have her name first not mine. We recently put everything in a trust over which she has as much authority as I do. When we have sold firearms to private parties, we get a receipt and require that it include a signed statement that the person is not a "prohibited person" and does not intend to use the firearm for any illegal purpose. We do this partly because we know of a case where several "assault rifles" sold privately were recovered in drug sting operations. The firearms were traced to the private seller, but he was protected by those sale receipts.
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