A little help from the experts here... - Page 2

A little help from the experts here...

This is a discussion on A little help from the experts here... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Cannibal It has always seemed a silly line to me, but it does seem to help some shooters with trigger control: be ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    It has always seemed a silly line to me, but it does seem to help some shooters with trigger control: be surprised when the gun goes bang.

    Those look like anticipation patterns to my eye, but not seeing you shoot makes it tough to tell for sure. If I was with you at the range, I'd take away your mags and load them with dummy rounds dispersed throughout. It's a good exercise to do when you've got a partner at the range and provides very obvious examples of anticipation shooting, to both the shooter and whoever is spotting for you. But the magic is in not knowing which rounds are live and which are dummies.

    That and dry-fire practice, will get your holes better centered. When you can go through mags with dummy rounds...and not see a big twitch on those dummy presses, reset shooting becomes much easier to learn.
    That is also a good way to practice clearing a failure.
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  2. #17
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    pijo73 ... I applaud your openness to learn and desire to improve. In addition to some great advise already given here, I'll throw in my 2 cents in hopes that it will be beneficial in some small way. In addition to efforts to learn to pull/squeeze the trigger straight back, the two things that I have found most helpful in my personal desire to improve my shooting are as follows:

    1. Dryfire Practice with a nickle - To get consistent and repeatable "small group" results on paper, I've found that it is imperative to fine tune and monitor my stance, hold, breathing, sight picture, trigger squeeze and follow through. Dryfire practice with a nickle placed behind the front sight is one of the best ways I've found to quickly ferret out any bad habits or unproductive movement that would negatively impact my accuracy. Once you are able to consistantly dry fire (20+ repetitions) without any movement of the nickle, I suspect you will see significant improvement in your groups at the range.


    2. Aim small miss small exercises - While the silhouette targets are great for self defense/center mass practice, to really fine tune my accuracy, (at the suggestion of a friend 6+ years ago), I made ASMS exercises a part of every range session. Simply place two or three 1" shoot-n-see adhesive dots on a piece of plain paper and place it at your prefered distance for the exercise (I prefer 7 - 12 yards as they get mighty small beyond that) and shoot 3 to 10 rounds at each 1" target. I discovered very quickly that it helps improve your focus and will serve to tighten up your groups. The immediate feedback from the placement of each shoot proved very valuable to me and I still start with the exercise at each range trip. The targets below are representative of my typical result. Hope that it helps.



    Last edited by BuckJM53; August 12th, 2016 at 11:26 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckJM53 View Post
    1. Dryfire Practice with a nickle -...
    I like the nickel trick. Might have to go try that at lunch!

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  5. #19
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    Take the nickel exercise one step up. This requires a second person with you. Insure and inspect to make sure the gun is empty and no ammo is in the same room. Then using a two handed grip with the trigger reset to fire, have the second person place a penny on top of the front sight. Squeeze the trigger smoothly so the penny does not fall off when the striker fires. Do this until you can repeat 10 times with success. This is one of the warm up drills at some of the Alumni Gun Fighting shoots that I have done.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    It has always seemed a silly line to me, but it does seem to help some shooters with trigger control: be surprised when the gun goes bang.

    Those look like anticipation patterns to my eye, but not seeing you shoot makes it tough to tell for sure. If I was with you at the range, I'd take away your mags and load them with dummy rounds dispersed throughout. It's a good exercise to do when you've got a partner at the range and provides very obvious examples of anticipation shooting, to both the shooter and whoever is spotting for you. But the magic is in not knowing which rounds are live and which are dummies.

    That and dry-fire practice, will get your holes better centered. When you can go through mags with dummy rounds...and not see a big twitch on those dummy presses, reset shooting becomes much easier to learn.
    Agree. When shooting my .357 magnum my results with magnum rounds were not as good as with .38 special rounds. When I would put one .38 special round in with five .357 (not knowing where the .38 was)I could see the "flinch" in my grip when I got the the .38 round (expecting a .357) as I was pulling the trigger and anticipating the bang. I then started mixing the two in different quantities and was able to correct.
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  7. #21
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    All great advice, love the nickle & penny stuff, never heard that before.
    I think I would have to use double sided tape before I brought it to position!
    Have to try it.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckJM53 View Post
    pijo73 ... I applaud your openness to learn and desire to improve. In addition to some great advise already given here, I'll throw in my 2 cents in hopes that it will be beneficial in some small way. In addition to efforts to learn the pull/squeeze the trigger straight back, the two things that I have found most helpful in my personal desire to improve my shooting are as follows:

    1. Dryfire Practice with a nickle - To get consistent and repeatable "small group" results on paper, I've found that it is imperative to fine tune and monitor my stance, hold, breathing, sight picture, trigger squeeze and follow through. Dryfire practice with a nickle placed behind the front sight is one of the best ways I've found to quickly ferret out any bad habits or unproductive movement that would negatively impact my accuracy. Once you are able to consistantly dry fire (20+ repetitions) without any movement of the nickle, I suspect you will see significant improvement in your groups at the range.


    2. Aim small miss small exercises - While the silhouette targets are great for self defense/center mass practice, to really fine tune my accuracy, (at the suggestion of a friend 6+ years ago), I made ASMS exercises a part of every range session. Simply place two or three 1" shoot-n-see adhesive dots on a piece of plain paper and place it at your prefered distance for the exercise (I prefer 7 - 12 yards as they get mighty small beyond that) and shoot 3 to 10 rounds at each 1" target. I discovered very quickly that it helps improve your focus and will serve to tighten up your groups. The immediate feedback from the placement of each shoot proved very valuable to me and I still start with the exercise at each range trip. The targets below is representative of my typical result. Hope that it helps.



    Admirable post. Admirable shooting.

    This is the kind of shooting I like.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Admirable post. Admirable shooting.

    This is the kind of shooting I like.
    Thanks for the kind words bmcgilvray. While I've heard from many over the years that shooting at shorter distances (7-12 yards) is way too easy and a waste of time, I always invite them to take the 1" challenge and post their targets .
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  10. #24
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    I agree Buck.

    Not measured but a slow-fire effort at 10 yards.


    Hurrying through a cylinder double-action at 10 yards with my ol' favorite Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    I agree Buck.

    Not measured but a slow-fire effort at 10 yards.


    Hurrying through a cylinder double-action at 10 yards with my ol' favorite Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel.
    Nicely done BMC
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  12. #26
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    Thanks for the advice guys! I am slightly OCD so YES LOL I feel the need to shoot better each time and i figure starting early may help me keep from getting comfortable with bad technique
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pijo73 View Post
    Thanks for the advice guys! I am slightly OCD so YES LOL I feel the need to shoot better each time and i figure starting early may help me keep from getting comfortable with bad technique
    Pijo73 ... Never apologize for wanting to improve your skills . If you have not already seen it (or similar) the following article provides a pretty good look at the basics we all need to master if we want to develop a proper/consistent technique and the accuracy that accompanies it .

    https://www.nrablog.com/articles/201...-fundamentals/
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pijo73 View Post
    I ran 150 rounds of Winchester 115g FMJ through my Mod2 9mm today at 7yds ,10-15 rounds per target and i pulled the target up to look each 5 rounds.
    First shot of the day is ALWAYS bullseye for some reason then i digress from there LOL
    I attempted to correct my actions but most were low and/or left, I noticed after a couple of targets i was forgetting to 'stage' the trigger (I haven't even BEGUN to work on reset) but that change didn't help a lot.
    I have looked at the pie graphic on this but I'm thinking I have multiple issues

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]
    You need a smooth trigger press. You shouldn't be stopping at the wall and then applying more pressure. As far as reset, just let go of the trigger during recoil. Often new shooters are taught to pin the trigger to the rear and this is a bad habit and hard to break.

    Dry fire can remedy all of this. Google the wall drill. It's helped me immensely.


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  15. #29
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    There's so much that goes into accuracy. Trigger control is just one of them but it's really the foundation. It doesn't matter what your sight alignment or grip is if you have a crappy trigger pull. Here's the drill I mentioned http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill

    If you're not dry firing your honestly wasting rounds at the range. It's hard to fix an issue if your only at the range once a week, month or a few times a year. Even uspsa gms will dry fire and they sometimes have access to unlimited ammo. Heck a Chinese shooter won gold at the olympics and didn't fire a Single round for a year. He did it through dry fire.


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  16. #30
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    What part of your finger are you using? I had this problem when I had too much finger on the trigger. If the shots were just down, that's flinching, but low and left usually means too much finger.
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