Training verse practice/hobby or for SD - Page 3

Training verse practice/hobby or for SD

This is a discussion on Training verse practice/hobby or for SD within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by OldChap Neither one brother. Sadly, it is mostly obeying the range rules and not getting thrown out. That's about it. I don't ...

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Thread: Training verse practice/hobby or for SD

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Neither one brother. Sadly, it is mostly obeying the range rules and not getting thrown out.
    That's about it. I don't stand there and carefully aim, though. I bring the muzzle up from the bench and fire as soon as the sights line up with wherever my eye is focused, then immediately after that I drop my arms down, then snap them back up and fire again as soon as the sights are lined up again. I'm not getting perfectly tight groups this way, but I'm typically keeping them within 2 1/2" at about seven yards or so, which I'm okay with. It's basically building muscle memory as far as snapping a round off as soon as I get that initial sight picture lined up.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    You go to the public range, static shoot from a line, always or mostly use two hands to shoot, get a perfect sight picture, never drawing from the holster to fire.

    Training or practice?
    Hobby or SD training?
    What you described was someone with a hobby, but those same people will tell you that they are training....Go figure...
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  3. #33
    Member Array jakebrake's Avatar
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    ranges go bonkers in my area if you try anything remotely close to "training". I had to go with plan b.

    laser bullets. having to constantly re-rack the slide gets a bit annoying, but, it works.

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  5. #34
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    What you described was someone with a hobby, but those same people will tell you that they are training....Go figure...
    That was the impetus behind the thread start
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    No, they are training you to play a game at which they can beat you every time, IMO.
    Yep. That's why I don't play their game.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by spclopr8tr View Post
    Unless one has access to their own range, open range, or takes a SD shooting course, it is difficult to practice much that is needed for SD proficiency at most commercial ranges due to safety rules. The ranges around me don't allow drawing from holsters unless it is part of a sanctioned match like IDPA. My gun club allows us to carry concealed, but if we do, we are not allowed to shoot the pistol. It must remain holstered while on the property. So that leaves us with two handed, strong hand, weak hand, stationary target practice at various distances. Drawing, holstering, and dry firing are pretty much limited to home.

    I am envious of those who can simply drive out to the desert, set up targets, and practice their defensive skills without restrictions. For those that don't, we have to make the best of what is available.

    I have often wondered about all the self defense stories we read about or see on TV how many of those folks routinely practice (or ever practice) using their firearms in a self defense scenario. Frequently we'll hear they had a permit to carry, but almost never do we hear what their level of proficiency might be. My suspicion is there are a LOT of successful SD events where the victor NEVER practices or shoots very often. But I've seen no studies or data to support that theory.

    Members of this forum live in our own specific digital bubble where we tend to be like minded, dedicated to a common interest, and tend to take training seriously. But I know many more concealed carriers who have taken the minimum training to get a permit and infrequently shoot their firearms. I suspect there are more favorable outcomes by these concealed carrier novices than there are by those who dedicate themselves to acquiring and maintaining advanced skills simply by the huge numbers that don't.

    Heresy?
    I agree. There was a really decent article by Ed Lovette a few years back that captured as best he could "civilian self defense statistics" as far as training received tactics employed etc. According to his article the vast, vast, majority of civilians had no formal training. You can read a summary of it here:

    https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...bat-stats.html

    14) Training by AC---Overwelmingly none, followed by a small number who had taken a CCW course and a very small amount who had fired a handgun while in the military.
    Take that into consideration along with the odds of ever even having to use a gun in SD and I'd be hard pressed to believe that anyone is doomed or even ill prepared for not practicing defensive shooting religiously.
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  8. #37
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Went to the indoor range this afternoon. Used a target of a guy with a gun. Today I wanted to draw from right hip and/or left front pocket but the draw and firing wasn't the focus. I wanted to randomly choose my responses from draw & immediately firing while backing up/off to side, drawing and not firing but backing up/off to side, not drawing at all but still backing up/off to side, drawing while backing up, and drawing and firing a random number of rounds decided while firing.

    I wasn't concerned with the physical part of responding today but was focusing on being able to decide what response to use, including a not using a gun at all response, instead of getting in the habit of draw and shoot. Hopefully that kind of practicing will help train me to think on the fly.

    Oh.. I also did a lot of talking to the target ranging from many bad words to talking him out of doing anything.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Great post, @Chuck R. The OP presented us with some possibilities that are actually more thought-provoking that I first took them: Training or practice? Hobby or SD training? The second pair could go either way. It's true that some people only shoot as a hobby and don't concentrate on SD. When I used to compete, it was a hobby, a serious one, but a hobby nonetheless. BUT for the SD folks: Some people just practice SD to a level they feel they need. YET Others get so into SD training that IT becomes a hobby. That latter group takes courses, does IDPA, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with that and not that they probably are increasing their chances somewhat. But it becomes more about the hobby than the practicality.

    I remember vividly a scene I saw many years ago leaving a gun show. A guy was OC'ing, armed to the teeth with some expensive guns. He looked like a badass. He got into a pickup, did not put on a seat belt, lit up a cigarette and pealed out of the parking lot into a busy street at high speed. I thought: If he is about reducing his risks in life, he may want to reevaluate!
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Great post, @Chuck R. The OP presented us with some possibilities that are actually more thought-provoking that I first took them: Training or practice? Hobby or SD training? The second pair could go either way. It's true that some people only shoot as a hobby and don't concentrate on SD. When I used to compete, it was a hobby, a serious one, but a hobby nonetheless. BUT for the SD folks: Some people just practice SD to a level they feel they need. YET Others get so into SD training that IT becomes a hobby. That latter group takes courses, does IDPA, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with that and not that they probably are increasing their chances somewhat. But it becomes more about the hobby than the practicality.

    I remember vividly a scene I saw many years ago leaving a gun show. A guy was OC'ing, armed to the teeth with some expensive guns. He looked like a badass. He got into a pickup, did not put on a seat belt, lit up a cigarette and pealed out of the parking lot into a busy street at high speed. I thought: If he is about reducing his risks in life, he may want to reevaluate!
    I'm guilty of turning training into a hobby, to the tune of a couple classes a year and IDPA and 3Gun.

    It all "briefs well", but practical application? Based on my current lifestyle, a half way decent personal risk assessment it's definitely overkill. Add to it the fact I own my own range complete with reactive targets, props barricades, swingers a mover etc.

    Buuuuut, it gives me something to do and I at least don't smoke, do watch my weight, do wear seatbelts.......
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew03 View Post
    Weak hand only, strong hand only, including fixing malfunctions and keeping ammo in gun/reloads, awkward positions, shooting under, around, and over cover/concealment, movement, making myself a harder target to hit rather than standing there static, targets varying from small dots, to full size human torso. If I'm expending ammo, that's what I want to be doing. At this point an indoor range experience punching paper just isn't what I am looking for or enjoy.

    Then there is the dry fire at home, grip, presentation, sight alignment, sight picture, endless draws from concealment, manipulation, etc. I spend way more time on this than on live fire
    I think I may have used the local indoor range at the club I was sgt. of arms for 3-4 times, in roughly 20 years. The outdoor range was used during the winter months too. Shooting indoors static, at a static paper target from a small shooting lane/station? Not in the cards.
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  12. #41
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    Mark me down unapologetically as FOR HOBBY.

    Any thing I do is for fun. I have my own outdoor range, and use it daily. I have not had a formal class in years and dont plan to, but if I did it would be like ROAD TRIIIIPPP, with a friend or two just to have an excuse to shoot up a bunch of ammo and have some fun.

    I have so many other interests and things I do, that if I had to break down in percentages my priorities and concerns in life, self defense might rate maybe 2%.
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  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array Militant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Great post, @Chuck R. The OP presented us with some possibilities that are actually more thought-provoking that I first took them: Training or practice? Hobby or SD training? The second pair could go either way. It's true that some people only shoot as a hobby and don't concentrate on SD. When I used to compete, it was a hobby, a serious one, but a hobby nonetheless. BUT for the SD folks: Some people just practice SD to a level they feel they need. YET Others get so into SD training that IT becomes a hobby. That latter group takes courses, does IDPA, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with that and not that they probably are increasing their chances somewhat. But it becomes more about the hobby than the practicality.

    I remember vividly a scene I saw many years ago leaving a gun show. A guy was OC'ing, armed to the teeth with some expensive guns. He looked like a badass. He got into a pickup, did not put on a seat belt, lit up a cigarette and pealed out of the parking lot into a busy street at high speed. I thought: If he is about reducing his risks in life, he may want to reevaluate!
    I agree! And oftentimes, those who are so enthusiastic about "their" hobby or about how "they" train tend to look down on other groups that are not as enthusiastic as "they" are about what and how "they" do things. I have a circle of friends in two categories. Some, like me, give serious thought about concealed carry and a few others, while they do have their permits to carry concealed (mostly due to our friendship and my influence upon them to carry something to defend themselves) couldn't care less about always going to the range, practicing their draw, reholstering, reloading, their accuracy or whether to carry IWB, OWB or AIWB etc. They couldn't care less about that stuff and they don't feel that it takes all of that. And, while I encourage them to attempt to become a little more proficient with their weapons, I'm not out to make them love the CC lifestyle like I do. Nor, do I look down upon them because they don't.

    As far as what I do; I have two ranges that I attend (i.e. indoor and outdoor). I love the relaxed atmosphere of the indoor range and hearing the shot sounds from various weapons amplified in that confined space while shooting PAPER. I love it! I also get to work on my accuracy, two hand shooting, one hand shooting, weak hand shooting, shooting with both eyes open etc. But, then at the outdoor range I attend, I get to work on my draw stroke and reholstering, reloading, moving around, shooting from kneeling postions, laying down, on my back, etc, all while I am shooting THE STEEL targets to hear'em ring! I love it!

    So, my point is, that I do what I feel is necessary for me and I don't get caught up or concerned about all of the stuff that others may feel that "they" need to do to be proficient with handling a firearm.
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  14. #43
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    I think most folk don't get to train like they need to, due to shooting range rules. These folk will do basic target shooting and call it training, which it's not, that's just target practice. I am fortunate enough to own a pretty good chunk of land that I shoot on. I can do whatever I please, drawing from holster, rapid fire, mag dumps, full auto, run and gun, etc and even setting off explosives. I'm slowly adding to my range and widened it up some and now can utilize it for target shooting, as well as tactical/SD training. Got a couple vehicles down there now, along with my barricades, which opens up my scenarios. You need to train for real life situations, whether that be in your home or out and about. If you are carrying every day, you need to be prepared to do business when the time comes. While I may not have the funds to take a good course, I watch a lot of training videos and incorporate that into my training.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array craze's Avatar
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    I'll put myself down for hobby. I mostly shoot on family property 2 hours from my house. There I can shoot what I want how I want. When I'm shooting there I do more than just shoot for groups but If it were not fun I wouldn't do it. I might only get out and shoot there once every month or 2. I have public range and indoor range options 10 minuets away and choose not to use them because I don't enjoy shooting in those places. For me I'd rather wait for a chance to get out of town and shoot in solitude.
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  16. #45
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    Reading some of these posts serves to remind me how truly fortunate I am to have my own range located about sixty yards from my home. Even on days I don't go down to it, I can still take a few fifty yard shots on the steel before I go on about my day.
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