Training verse practice/hobby or for SD

Training verse practice/hobby or for SD

This is a discussion on Training verse practice/hobby or for SD within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; You go to the public range, static shoot from a line, always or mostly use two hands to shoot, get a perfect sight picture, never ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Training verse practice/hobby or for SD

    You go to the public range, static shoot from a line, always or mostly use two hands to shoot, get a perfect sight picture, never drawing from the holster to fire.

    Training or practice?
    Hobby or SD training?

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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    I did that type of practice on rare occasions when I lived in California when I had the itch to shoot and the closest place to practice was an indoor range. Most of the time, we went to practice with our instructor who ran organized practices twice a month. He would assign a variety of drills. Always shot from the holster AND concealment. Always shooting with movement. Frequent practice with one hand, primary AND support. Always practiced with a "coach" (partner) who critiqued your mistakes. My wife and I still practice that way today.
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    VIP Member Array Cornhusker95's Avatar
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    Sadly most probably never practice drawing from a holster.... Most ranges prohibits that for safety reasons.
    That is where having your own range at home is a plus.

    How many actually practice drawing from a holster at home (With a unloaded gun of course) and practice things like trigger control etc etc?

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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker95 View Post
    How many actually practice drawing from a holster at home (With a unloaded gun of course) and practice things like trigger control etc etc?
    I do. Regularly.
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    Based on all I've read here since joining the forum, I'd say hobby.

    About the only thing I get any practice with at the range, is one hand shooting - (I do a lot of that). Also, learned how to manage recoil when doing double taps, or triple taps. But that's about it, and it isn't much...at all. And at home, I've been practicing my draw ever since I bought a handgun, a little over three years ago.

    AzQkr - after seeing your you tube videos, and reading what one forum member has said about your classes, I really wish I had the money & time to take one, or more, of your classes.
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    I don't think there are clear lines. When I went through training to be a kid's as a soccer coach, the mantra was "touches on the ball." That was not to denigrate drills, or scrimmages or actual playing, but what they found was the more touches a kid got on a ball, the more they improved, more than any other single factor.

    I think any trigger time has the potential to create improvement. That potential is reached as long as the shooting is not reinforcing bad habits. Trigger time with specific intent, specific objectives, aka trying to achieve a specific result, creates more potential to improve per trigger squeeze. Drills in formal training can create that specific intent, but you can also do that on your own. Also, bad training, of which there is a lot of out there, can be a trigger time waster at best, and can diminish skills at worst. The best, I think, is formal training drills with some stress level and realism induced, like FoF. But again, that has to be done right.

    I don't think hobby or other non-SD shooting, like hunting is bad for SD. Look at Sgt. York. and Gunny Hathcock. They learned to shoot hunting squirrels to put meat on the table, no thought of combat or SD. Both became combat shooters for the history books. Target shooting and hunting requires precision and can create types of stress that cause you to test your fundamentals. As far as I know, Jerry Miculek has never been in a gunfight. He probably does not concentrate on SD shooting. He probably doesn't take much training, it's probably all practice. But I wouldn't want to face him in a gunfight! He'd probably best a lot of the tactical trainers out there.
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    VIP Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Weak hand only, strong hand only, including fixing malfunctions and keeping ammo in gun/reloads, awkward positions, shooting under, around, and over cover/concealment, movement, making myself a harder target to hit rather than standing there static, targets varying from small dots, to full size human torso. If I'm expending ammo, that's what I want to be doing. At this point an indoor range experience punching paper just isn't what I am looking for or enjoy.

    Then there is the dry fire at home, grip, presentation, sight alignment, sight picture, endless draws from concealment, manipulation, etc. I spend way more time on this than on live fire
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    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    When younger and more supple I belonged to a gun club with an outdoor range and practiced shooting moving left, right, backwards, and at different angles. Dropping to one knee or falling down and drawing laying on my back then shooting over legs or overhead was also possible. Used movable target stands as cover/concealment depending on the scenario. Also shot between my legs bent over with back to target.

    Also put out balloons on strings on days with variable winds and used those for targets doing all of the above. Alas I am old now and the most supple thing I do involves a blue pill.

    But the most fun (hobby) was putting those balloons out and using shot shells in my .22 revolver then draw and shoot hitting 2 balloons with one shot. Messes with less informed people's minds especially when done more than once....

    Now I use an indoor range that allows very limited side to side movement, am too old to get on one knee, the cement floor would break my bones if I fell down, but I do use the cart as if it were a person and try to keep it behind me as I move and shoot. That isn't easy since the range carts have wheels like the front wheels of a grocery cart so the cart goes where ever it wants.

    And then there is putting silhouette targets throughout the house and addressing them with an airsoft pistol. In the dark.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker95 View Post
    Sadly most probably never practice drawing from a holster.... Most ranges prohibits that for safety reasons.
    That is where having your own range at home is a plus.

    How many actually practice drawing from a holster at home (With a unloaded gun of course) and practice things like trigger control etc etc?
    Nearly every night, I keep a G23.4 in my den for dry fire/etc. and do so while watching tv before bed. I have recently substituted in a G43 because it gives much more feedback to anything I don't do correctly.
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  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    Practice, but not necessarily just hobby. Traditional range shooting hammers in the basics of shooting and what most have access to. Few have access to a place that allows real SD practice. I can use the iTarget system to practice draw, target acquisition, and movement. I can even train that way with obstacles, as I can train with the iTarget in a location set up for duplicating a restaurant with lots of tables and chairs to move around. I have only ONE area I can go that I can do most of that in live fire. It is a public access range and is often stacked up with a line at the 2 firing lines. Unfortunately, in addition to waits for the few lanes available, there is no provision for multiple targets at multiple distances.

    The traditional range is good for working on the fundamentals of gun handling, but not for full defensive handling and tactics. You may have to spend $200 for the membership fee and $200 a year and add travel time to get to a range that allows real training, real SD practice on multiple targets, multiple distances, and movement. Then go the next step and get in a defensive shooting competition.
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    Unless one has access to their own range, open range, or takes a SD shooting course, it is difficult to practice much that is needed for SD proficiency at most commercial ranges due to safety rules. The ranges around me don't allow drawing from holsters unless it is part of a sanctioned match like IDPA. My gun club allows us to carry concealed, but if we do, we are not allowed to shoot the pistol. It must remain holstered while on the property. So that leaves us with two handed, strong hand, weak hand, stationary target practice at various distances. Drawing, holstering, and dry firing are pretty much limited to home.

    I am envious of those who can simply drive out to the desert, set up targets, and practice their defensive skills without restrictions. For those that don't, we have to make the best of what is available.

    I have often wondered about all the self defense stories we read about or see on TV how many of those folks routinely practice (or ever practice) using their firearms in a self defense scenario. Frequently we'll hear they had a permit to carry, but almost never do we hear what their level of proficiency might be. My suspicion is there are a LOT of successful SD events where the victor NEVER practices or shoots very often. But I've seen no studies or data to support that theory.

    Members of this forum live in our own specific digital bubble where we tend to be like minded, dedicated to a common interest, and tend to take training seriously. But I know many more concealed carriers who have taken the minimum training to get a permit and infrequently shoot their firearms. I suspect there are more favorable outcomes by these concealed carrier novices than there are by those who dedicate themselves to acquiring and maintaining advanced skills simply by the huge numbers that don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornhusker95 View Post
    Sadly most probably never practice drawing from a holster.... Most ranges prohibits that for safety reasons.
    That is where having your own range at home is a plus.

    How many actually practice drawing from a holster at home (With a unloaded gun of course) and practice things like trigger control etc etc?
    One that I know of for sure. There are probably others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    You go to the public range, static shoot from a line, always or mostly use two hands to shoot, get a perfect sight picture, never drawing from the holster to fire.

    Training or practice?
    Hobby or SD training?
    About a quarter of what I do doesn't even involve a sight picture. For me, at least it is all three, hobby, practice and training. I don't spend much time on skills I have already mastered, but I do try hard to keep them fresh.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array The Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    You go to the public range, static shoot from a line, always or mostly use two hands to shoot, get a perfect sight picture, never drawing from the holster to fire.

    Training or practice?
    Hobby or SD training?
    Hobby/practice....fun, but still just a hobby.
    You need to FORCE yourself to do the things that are difficult. Human nature to do things that you do well because they make you feel good.
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