Question for the Old Farts with Old Eyes...... - Page 2

Question for the Old Farts with Old Eyes......

This is a discussion on Question for the Old Farts with Old Eyes...... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I've got a front sight? Weeell I'll be! A dab of bright orange paint helped me....

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Thread: Question for the Old Farts with Old Eyes......

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    I've got a front sight? Weeell I'll be!

    A dab of bright orange paint helped me.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    My eyes have been around since the Clovis Point was new technology but all I needed to clear things up was cataract removal. The aiming situation was further improved by a slight change in the position of the middle lens in my trifocals.

  3. #18
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    Added a red dot sight to some of my firearms (PDW home defense), but my daily carry weapons are still fitted with iron sights. When the time comes, I'll probably go with an RMR on my G20. Been very lucky, considering an eye injury I received when I was a youth, which caused me to have to get glasses.
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  5. #19
    Member Array Teufelhunde's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input. I do have a pair of glasses for the range that are standard bi-focals with an additional rectangular bar of sight distance correction at the inner top of the right lens that pulls the front sight in clearly. I am just thinking of trying a set of laser grips as an option.......

    Lon
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teufelhunde View Post
    Any of the Old Farts on here moved towards laser grips? Does it help being able to keep both eyes open and focusing on the target rather than trying to focus old eyes on the front sight? Asking for a friend
    As someone with aging eyes and front sight problems, I'm there with you. The responses you've seen have been a mixed discussion of laser sights and reflex optics, so I'll touch on both from my perspective.

    Lasers: Statement of the obvious (for benefit of people new to the subject)... lasers project a narrow beam of bright light at the target, and the light reflects from downrange back to the shooter. How bright the reflection is depends on several things. Strength of the laser beam is a biggie; green lasers tend to be much stronger than the red beams. The surface the beam hits also affects how the light will scatter and reflect back to the shooter. Also, anything in the air (dust, haze, smoke, rain, snow) will reduce how much light gets to the target and how much is attenuated from the reflection, affecting how bright the laser dot appears to the shooter. Particulates in the air can also make the laser beam visible in the air to anyone looking; that could be good (helping a criminal choose to stop rather than getting shot) or it could be bad (bad guy may choose to shoot first, rather than getting shot at). Lasers are often mounted to the grips, or to a rail below the muzzle, so don't get in the line of sight when using iron sights.

    Red Dot Optic: Statement of the obvious... a red dot is projected onto a glass lens mounted to the gun; this dot is not a laser beam going to the target and back. The dot will always appear on the glass, it doesn't rely on being pointed at a reflective target (for example, if pointing the gun just above the horizon a laser won't show a dot unless there's something to reflect off of; an optic will show a red dot floating in midair on the optic glass). The optic is mounted to the top of a gun, and "suppressor height" iron sights are often used in conjunction with optics to provide a backup capability to co-witness and use iron sights if the optic fails. Red dot optics often have a manual intensity adjustment for brightness; some come with an automatic brightness adjustment based on ambient light.

    Why I've gone to using red dot optics: My eyes can correct to 20/20 at distance, but when I focus on a target the front sight is beyond blurry... it's unusable. With bifocals I can see the front sight when looking through the second eyeglasses lens, but everything beyond the front sight is then blurry beyond use. Yes, when using irons with normal eyes the shooter should focus on the front sight and the target becomes blurry and the shooter should center the in-focus front sight on the slightly blurry target to get good hits. In my case the target becomes so blurry it's indistinguishable from anything else, and there's no way to center an in-focus front sight on a blurred target, there's no way to identify what is and what isn't the target. My solution is a red dot optic. I can stay focused on the target, and the red dot projected on the glass is simply overlaid on the target.

    Drawbacks: yes, optics or lasers have downsides. For anyone who is practiced at using iron sights, going to a laser or optic may slow them down some on lining up on the target. People with good eyes are often faster with plain irons. But with practice optics can be fast too. Optics and lasers can also stop working, so battery life and quality of the device matter. Mounting screws can also come lose, afecting accuracy.
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  7. #21
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    A few years back I went ahead with having the eye doctor make up a pair of shooting glasses corrected for the distance to a handgun's front sight. First it was the snubs, then the 4-inchers, then the 8 3/8-inch barrels' front sights that seemed to need occasional help. Sometimes it seems I need all handguns to have an 18 3/8-inch barrel.

    True confession: Had the glasses made up four years ago and scarcely ever use them or really need them. Some days eyes are tired. Too much reading, computing, allergies? I don't know. Most days glasses are unnecessary baggage.

    Heading to the range in just a moment. Open sights on rifles are fine and that's the primary focus this morning. We'll see how it goes with the handguns.
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  8. #22
    Member Array montejames's Avatar
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    Red dot sights.
    .
    .
    Monte

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  9. #23
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    It's one thing for the front sight to be clear and the target blurry, it is another thing when the target is so blurry as to be a blob. As you age your depth of field (the distance between the nearest and furthest objects you can focus on) shrinks. When you use a laser of red dot, you are focusing only on the target, so the depth of field problem is eliminated. I used lasers for years but have now moved to red dots. I find that my groups are as accurate and tight at 15 yards with a red dot as they are at 7 yards without it. The other benefit of a red dot or laser is that you are focused on the threat, not at the end of your pistol. I find that I am less prone to tunnel vision when I shoot with a red dot.

    There are downsides to both red dots and lasers. Being electronic, they can fail. Which is why you need to train to transition to irons. It takes lots of repetitions with a red dot to learn to present so the red dot is there when you have extended your arm. I also hate lasers or red dots that require them to be turned on. My Crimson trace lasers were always the type that turned on when you gripped the pistol. My red dot is a sig Romeo that has a motion detector and is always on as you remove the guns from the holster. I bought my first pistol with a red dot, a Sign p320 RX largely so I could try a red dot. It has been a great choice and I would not likely buy anything other than a pocket pistol without a red dot again.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy View Post
    It's one thing for the front sight to be clear and the target blurry, it is another thing when the target is so blurry as to be a blob. As you age your depth of field (the distance between the nearest and furthest objects you can focus on) shrinks. When you use a laser of red dot, you are focusing only on the target, so the depth of field problem is eliminated. I used lasers for years but have now moved to red dots. I find that my groups are as accurate and tight at 15 yards with a red dot as they are at 7 yards without it. The other benefit of a red dot or laser is that you are focused on the threat, not at the end of your pistol. I find that I am less prone to tunnel vision when I shoot with a red dot.

    There are downsides to both red dots and lasers. Being electronic, they can fail. Which is why you need to train to transition to irons. It takes lots of repetitions with a red dot to learn to present so the red dot is there when you have extended your arm. I also hate lasers or red dots that require them to be turned on. My Crimson trace lasers were always the type that turned on when you gripped the pistol. My red dot is a sig Romeo that has a motion detector and is always on as you remove the guns from the holster. I bought my first pistol with a red dot, a Sign p320 RX largely so I could try a red dot. It has been a great choice and I would not likely buy anything other than a pocket pistol without a red dot again.
    And your Sig P320RX convinced me to take the plunge and mill out slides on guns I'm good with. Still appreciate you letting me shoot it!

    Spot on with staying target focused too. During a conflict we're more likely to stay threat focused, so simply overlaying a dot onto the problem becomes natural. It's also what I'm familiar with doing based on military training with M-4s; it's a consistent method across platforms for me, which helps.
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    I am pushing seventy-three and have worn glasses since 1963. My distance vision kept getting worse until it peaked several years ago. Now my distance vision is improving and I need reading glasses more and more. I can still do a one inch group at 100 yards with a rifle with open sights. I have no problem shooting handguns with open sights. Some of my carry guns have night-sights. My 3"X3" Taurus Judge has Crimson Trace Laser Grips. It is relegated to nightstand duty only.
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array PhaedrusIV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    I am pushing seventy-three and have worn glasses since 1963. My distance vision kept getting worse until it peaked several years ago. Now my distance vision is improving and I need reading glasses more and more. I can still do a one inch group at 100 yards with a rifle with open sights. I have no problem shooting handguns with open sights. Some of my carry guns have night-sights. My 3"X3" Taurus Judge has Crimson Trace Laser Grips. It is relegated to nightstand duty only.
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  13. #27
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    My eyesight is 20/20 beyond arm's length. For me, I focus on the target and have gotten pretty good at aligning sights with the target. If I try to focus on the front sight, everything is out of focus. As a result, I've added CT green laser guards to my EDC guns. Since my EDCs have changed over time, I'm up to six lasers on six guns. The first four were red, but I see green much mo betta, so I've switched over to greeen.

    I only wear cheater glasses, which allow me to focus on the front sight if I just want to target practice. But I figure in a self defense situation the BG isn't going to allow me to take a time out in order to be able to put my cheaters on to shoot him. So I do most of my practice without any magnification. My shooting glasses do have 1.75 magnification bi-focals though that come in handy on reloads and activity that requires clear viewing up close. But they are useless for target shooting.

    I am probably going to order a Sig P320 with the Romeo red dot for a home defense gun. If that works out well for me I may consider switching to red dots for the EDC. But I'm so enamored of my P365 (which won't take a red dot), I may just stick with the laser.

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusIV View Post
    Well, I'm pushing seventy-two and what I know for sure is when I look at your picture, you're kinda HAIRY. But I think it's you and not me...
    FIFY
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Texas Red's Avatar
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    I have a Crimson Trace on my carry piece - a 38 j-frame snub.

    I have Trijicon night sights on a 1911.

    To be honest, I much prefer the laser. But that's just me.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teufelhunde View Post
    Thanks for all the input. I do have a pair of glasses for the range that are standard bi-focals with an additional rectangular bar of sight distance correction at the inner top of the right lens that pulls the front sight in clearly. I am just thinking of trying a set of laser grips as an option.......

    Lon
    I have watched a lot of people in nearby booths at indoor ranges chase the laser dot around the target instead of learning to use the sights to aim. Their shot pattern is all over the target! When I teach newbies, using a revolver with laser grips, I explain to them that IF they can see the red dot it means their sights are not lined up properly. Try it and see.

    The main thing the laser does help with for new people is that they can easily see how much movement the gun has while they are holding it in position and aiming. Increased consistency and stability of grip occurs fairly rapidly when they see how much wobble they have!

    If you can use a laser only when you do not have the gun lined up in "normal" shooting position where you can use the sights, and you can hold the gun steady while you pull the trigger, they can be quite helpful. I say "if" because I've tried that and have had miserable to worse than miserable results - me, myself.

    All of that said, Gramps has a laser that came on one of his pocket revolvers and he enjoys shooting it from time to time with the laser turned on, but he's a very experienced shooter.
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