Reloading: I don't want you to get all excited yet...interesting update POST 88

Reloading: I don't want you to get all excited yet...interesting update POST 88

This is a discussion on Reloading: I don't want you to get all excited yet...interesting update POST 88 within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Maybe.... First, take a look at the pics and graphs. The graph that goes with the pic is right under the target pic. The target ...

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 106
Like Tree145Likes

Thread: Reloading: I don't want you to get all excited yet...interesting update POST 88

  1. #1
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,888

    Reloading: I don't want you to get all excited yet...interesting update POST 88

    Maybe....

    First, take a look at the pics and graphs. The graph that goes with the pic is right under the target pic. The target pics show the actual hits, and the graphs show the accuracy and SD for each target. Each graph also show a dashed line at 1 MOA for accuracy, and another dashed line for an SD of 20.













    Some details:
    • The powder is A2520
    • The cases are new Lapua
    • Primers are Federal GM205M
    • Charge increment is 0.4 gr
    • Five shots at each charge


    Notice the charge range on the last two are different than the first by 0.2 gr. I saw some pressure signs at 25.2 gr so I backed all the charges down by 0.2 gr. A

    Also, notice contrary to what we often see, the numbers and accuracy are better near the max charges.

    What I'm trying to control my excitement about is the consistency - finally! I hope that is. I'm kinda having RA, range anxiety, wondering if I can get similar results with previously fired cases. All of the above were shot with new Lapua cases.

    Speaking of Lapua, I'm losing about 40% of my Lapua and Sig cases due to primer pocket expansion. Some of that is likely due to the high charges I tend to run, but if that were the cause, then I should only see about 20% instead of 40% loses.

    I have noticed that the highly thought of Lapua cases in .223 vary in weight a lot - more than Sig and more than Hornady. This, and some other things, make me think that the .223 cases don't get the same "attention" as the long range/precision calibers.

    Anyway, today I shoot the same charges in Lapua cases that have been reload 4 times. I had to check every primer pocket and a couple were so loose, the primer almost fell out. In fact, one primer did fall out! So about half of my 4x Lapua cases got thrown out.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  2. #2
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    7,333
    Tangle, that's interesting about the Lapua cases. I have used quite a bit of Lapua brass for my .308 loads, but have yet to actually reload any (still working through the new stuff). I have to admit, I am not as scrupulous as you in that I do not weigh the cases.
    Tangle and Rock and Glock like this.
    So many weapons, so little time.

    Learning occurs only after repetitive, demoralizing failures.

    "Who needs your truth if it stands in our way?"
    General Alexei Yepishev, political commissar of the Soviet Armed Forces

  3. #3
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,888
    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    Tangle, that's interesting about the Lapua cases. I have used quite a bit of Lapua brass for my .308 loads, but have yet to actually reload any (still working through the new stuff). I have to admit, I am not as scrupulous as you in that I do not weigh the cases.
    Hey, who you callin' scrupulous!!!

    I typically don't weigh cases either. I do from time to time when I see things I don't want to see. But, spot checks don't look good for 223 Lapua cases weight-wise, and I find far more primer pocket expansion in Lapua cases than any other.

    I suspect .308 will get more attention to detail in manufacturing that the lowly 223. The 308 is a long range/precision caliber. The 223, I think, kinda falls in no man's land. It's not a good long range round, and most are tin can and minute of man applications, so I doubt manufacturers give too much attention to 223 brass.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array HotBrass45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,723
    Ive read that Lapua brass rates very high for consistency. Out of curiosity have you tried Norma brass? Since brass seems to be emerging as one of your red xs
    Rock and Glock and Tangle like this.
    I was born a gun owner, it wasn't a choice, I didn't become one later in life...I was born this way

  6. #5
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    404 Page Not Found
    Posts
    22,502
    I am happy for you, Tangle. It is odd on the brass, as a point of curiosity.

    Science does have its' own rewards!

    Please don't take up golf.
    Tangle, ShooterGranny and wmhawth like this.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here



    "If we suppose them sincere, we must pity their ignorance; if insincere, we must abhor the spirit of deception which it betrays." Alexander Hamilton

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    7,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I am happy for you, Tangle. It is odd on the brass, as a point of curiosity.
    Science does have its' own rewards!
    Please don't take up golf.
    Do people weigh their balls?
    (If you think this is double entendre, get your mind out of the gutter.)
    So many weapons, so little time.

    Learning occurs only after repetitive, demoralizing failures.

    "Who needs your truth if it stands in our way?"
    General Alexei Yepishev, political commissar of the Soviet Armed Forces

  8. #7
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,888
    Quote Originally Posted by HotBrass45 View Post
    Ive read that Lapua brass rates very high for consistency. Out of curiosity have you tried Norma brass? Since brass seems to be emerging as one of your red xs
    Lapua brass does rate very high for consistency, but that's for the long range/precision calibers, 6 mm, 6.5 mm, etc. I wish I could remember where I read/saw it, but another guy was talking about the high variation in weight of 223 Lapua brass.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,969
    The developers of the 6mm Mongoose stated that Lapua cases would require neck turning if used to make Mongoose case because the thicker walls in the shoulder area leave the neck diameter too big. They recommended Lake City brass. I don't have Lapua cases but found Nosler cases are close to the max neck diameter after converting.

    The majority of the brass I'm using is either LC or FC, which by appearance seems to be either LC makes FC brass or visa versa. Both are crimped primers, but I'm okay with that as de-crimping is a one-time deal and I'm going to prep the pockets regardless. Then I have a few stray Win and Perfection cases mixed into the lot. Another batch of once-fired LC brass is on the way here.

    I've got some cases where the primer pockets aren't "loose," but they sure ain't as tight as they once were. A few will likely be culled on the next firing.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  10. #9
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,888
    The surprise for me is the A2520 powder. Seems like it's not one of the favorite powders out there. I was watching Johnny's Reloading Bench and he tested all kinds of powders trying to find a MK 262 clone. Of all the powders, based on repeated performance, his pick was A2520, so I gave it a try.

    I think the major changes I've made that's produced the above excellent accuracy and low numbers is a Odin Works 18" barrel. I went to 18" to duplicate "Johnny's" loads with 2520 and I used new Lapua brass, not sorted, and the A2520 powder.

    I'm nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs thinking about going to the range and shooting the same loads in the same gun but using Lapua 4x loaded cases, also not sorted
    bmcgilvray likes this.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,969
    I've never used Alliant powders in rifle loads. I've stuck with IMR for my .223 and .30-06 for years, mainly because they've done well and I don't want to buy powders I find I don't like and be stuck with them. Going to Hodgdon powder for the Mongoose was a bit of a stretch for me, but I've been pleased with how they meter and shoot--so far. With the Goose, most anything is a shot in the dark. Benchmark may be my next experiment. ".223" powders are not necessarily compatible with the 6mm Goose, even thought based on the same cases with close capacities. Something to keep me busy anyhow.

    Hopefully your loads are up to expectations. Kind of a bummer to find what one thinks will be a decent load turns out to be crappy.
    bmcgilvray and Tangle like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  12. #11
    Senior Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    17,457
    "Reloading: I don't want you to get all excited yet, but.... "

    Hah! Will if I want to.

    Could Tangle be near the conclusion of his "Consistency Odyssey?"
    Havok and Tangle like this.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,981
    Nice! Hopefully that will be repeatable over the long term.
    Tangle likes this.
    We get the government we deserve.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,969
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Could Tangle be near the conclusion of his "Consistency Odyssey?"
    You'd have to ask Homer.
    Tangle likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  15. #14
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,888
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    "Reloading: I don't want you to get all excited yet, but.... "

    Hah! Will if I want to.
    It's my thread, so you can't get excited until I say it's ok to...

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    ...Could Tangle be near the conclusion of his "Consistency Odyssey?"
    More likely another false hope
    bmcgilvray likes this.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array CavemanBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Kalirado
    Posts
    1,617
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Maybe....

    First, take a look at the pics and graphs. The graph that goes with the pic is right under the target pic. The target pics show the actual hits, and the graphs show the accuracy and SD for each target. Each graph also show a dashed line at 1 MOA for accuracy, and another dashed line for an SD of 20.













    Some details:
    • The powder is A2520
    • The cases are new Lapua
    • Primers are Federal GM205M
    • Charge increment is 0.4 gr
    • Five shots at each charge


    Notice the charge range on the last two are different than the first by 0.2 gr. I saw some pressure signs at 25.2 gr so I backed all the charges down by 0.2 gr. A

    Also, notice contrary to what we often see, the numbers and accuracy are better near the max charges.

    What I'm trying to control my excitement about is the consistency - finally! I hope that is. I'm kinda having RA, range anxiety, wondering if I can get similar results with previously fired cases. All of the above were shot with new Lapua cases.

    Speaking of Lapua, I'm losing about 40% of my Lapua and Sig cases due to primer pocket expansion. Some of that is likely due to the high charges I tend to run, but if that were the cause, then I should only see about 20% instead of 40% loses.

    I have noticed that the highly thought of Lapua cases in .223 vary in weight a lot - more than Sig and more than Hornady. This, and some other things, make me think that the .223 cases don't get the same "attention" as the long range/precision calibers.

    Anyway, today I shoot the same charges in Lapua cases that have been reload 4 times. I had to check every primer pocket and a couple were so loose, the primer almost fell out. In fact, one primer did fall out! So about half of my 4x Lapua cases got thrown out.
    Losing so much brass so early to primer pocket expansion is a definite sign your pressures are running too high.
    The best citizenry is an informed citizenry

    NRA Patron member

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •