Reloading: When it ain't what it appears to be - something good! - Page 2

Reloading: When it ain't what it appears to be - something good!

This is a discussion on Reloading: When it ain't what it appears to be - something good! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by OldVet Quite possibly. @ Tangle , you have intrigued me enough to set up my chrono , I'm shooting 223 once fired ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Quite possibly.
    @Tangle , you have intrigued me enough to set up my chrono , I'm shooting 223 once fired brass ? cleaned and resized, no trimming, sorting, etc , the bullets are pulled 55gr , powder AA-2230 , cci primers , Hornady lnl press , lee dies

    Savage mdl-12

    Accuracy was not a concern as these bullets are ment for fun range time ..

    10 shots through the chrono

    1- 3274
    2-3235
    3-3227
    4-3228
    5-3223
    6-3239
    7-3247
    8-3269
    9-3250
    10-3238
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails
    Reloading: When it ain't what it appears to be - something good!-img_1796.jpg


    Ok I'm intrigued again and dug up my AR , it's nothing special, just a bunch of parts I aquired ,

    1-2964
    2-2942
    3-2954
    4-2978
    5-2949
    6-2956
    7-2963
    8-2962
    9-2957
    10-2942

    And again this is after I sighted in the rifle , the 10 shot string was one after the other stopping to write the information and shoot again ,

    This is the same ammunition , range fodder , plinking

    I'm very surprised at the fps the savage 12 has a 26 inch barrel , the AR has a 16 inch barrel
    I did choose the A-2230 powder for the shorter barrels , Thompson contenders ,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Reloading: When it ain't what it appears to be - something good!-img_1811.jpg  

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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    36 fps ES for the AR versus 51 for the Savage. Interesting. I would have thought the opposite. Impressive ES for the AR. Both actually. The increase in the Savage velocities is notable, as would be expected.

    My 6mm Mongoose barrel was 22", but I had the threaded muzzle cut off and a recessed target crown cut, so it measures about 21.25. My best ES so far--only tried out my chrono once--was with 27.8 grains of H335 under a 70-grain HPBT, ES of 27, SD 10 and 27.0 gains of same, ES 23/SD 10. All the loads with that powder and bullet had good results and worth tweaking. None of those loads had any exceptional efforts involved beyond typical reloading procedures.
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  3. #18
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    Thanks much for that @flh !

    I just got back from the range and shot a 6x5 ladder (6 charges, 5 shots each charge). What a crazy session! I wanted to see how IMR 8208 XBR would do compared to A2520. This was the initial 5 shot sets to see if there would be any problems. If not, then I'll probably shoot the same 6x5 or a subset of it at least 2 more times to get the overall shot count up to 15 shots per charge.

    ..Vel....ES....SD...ES/SD ratio
    2629...35...15.3......2.23
    2675...34...13.4......2.54
    2708...37...14.7......2.52
    2740...23...10.2......2.26

    As you can see these are outstanding numbers - something I've been looking for, for a loooooong time. But, then, the last two groups....

    ..Vel....ES....SD
    2768...67...26.9
    2725...64...26.4

    What on earth happened! Not only are the ESs/SDs large, the last group, 0.3 gr higher charge than the one before it, has an average velocity 43 fps slower!

    And if that's not enough, one of the CCI 400 primers in this last group didn't fire.
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  5. #19
    flh
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    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    @Tangle , you have intrigued me enough to set up my chrono , I'm shooting 223 once fired brass ? cleaned and resized, no trimming, sorting, etc , the bullets are pulled 55gr , powder AA-2230 , cci primers , Hornady lnl press , lee dies

    Savage mdl-12

    Accuracy was not a concern as these bullets are ment for fun range time ..

    10 shots through the chrono

    1- 3274
    2-3235
    3-3227
    4-3228
    5-3223
    6-3239
    7-3247
    8-3269
    9-3250
    10-3238
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails
    Reloading: When it ain't what it appears to be - something good!-img_1796.jpg


    Ok I'm intrigued again and dug up my AR , it's nothing special, just a bunch of parts I aquired ,

    1-2964
    2-2942
    3-2954
    4-2978
    5-2949
    6-2956
    7-2963
    8-2962
    9-2957
    10-2942

    And again this is after I sighted in the rifle , the 10 shot string was one after the other stopping to write the information and shoot again ,

    This is the same ammunition , range fodder , plinking

    I'm very surprised at the fps the savage 12 has a 26 inch barrel , the AR has a 16 inch barrel
    I did choose the A-2230 powder for the shorter barrels , Thompson contenders ,


    To add a lil more information , I took 10 of the pulled bullets and weighed them 55.3 to 54.5 gr

    To compare , Hornady match , 52.1 to 52.0 gr

    Sierra match king 69.1 to 69.0 gr
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  6. #20
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    As you can see these are outstanding numbers - something I've been looking for, for a loooooong time. But, then, the last two groups....

    ..Vel....ES....SD
    2768...67...26.9
    2725...64...26.4

    What on earth happened! Not only are the ESs/SDs large, the last group, 0.3 gr higher charge than the one before it, has an average velocity 43 fps slower!


    ^^^^^^^A hot barrel induces inconsistency?
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    ^^^^^^^A hot barrel induces inconsistency?
    That would make sense , but....

    I was monitoring barrel and suppressor temps hoping it would give some indication of what the inaccessible chamber temp might be doing. I was shooting at a slow pace and taking a 2 minute break between 5 shot sets. The barrel and suppressor temps stayed pretty constant - that is until that last two groups!

    Another shooter arrived and there was a considerable break between the 4th and 5th set. Then another shorter break between the 5th and 6th set.

    Right now, I got nothing to explain the abrupt increase in spread and incredible decrease in velocity from the 5th to 6th levels.

    I'm about to start loading again; this should be interesting!
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    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  8. #22
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    I just discovered that the third shot in the 5th level was a Sig case; all others were Lapua. So the Sig had the lowest velocity, but there was a Lapua that was within 12 fps of it.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    ^^^^^^^A hot barrel induces inconsistency?
    The barrel of my savage was so hot I couldn't touch it , even after a packed up all my gear and was heading back to my truck I could still feel the heat on my shoulder as a carried the rifle back to my truck

    The barrel on my AR was hot but not nearly as much ...
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  10. #24
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    I feel there is a "saturation" point in loads, where optimum efficiency is lost, and pouring more powder into it will accomplish nothing but higher velocity in diminishing rates. For a particular gun/load combo, that may be with max charges, medium charges, or minimal charges. I know my .30-06 has never shot maximum/near-maximum loads near as well as mid-range loads. That's with bullet weights from 130 to 180 grains. 200 or 220 grains may be an entirely different story, but I've never loaded beyond 200 grains.

    Perhaps your last two loads exceeded that optimum load. You can pour only so much gas into a carburetor before the engine floods.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I feel there is a "saturation" point in loads, where optimum efficiency is lost, and pouring more powder into it will accomplish nothing but higher velocity in diminishing rates. For a particular gun/load combo, that may be with max charges, medium charges, or minimal charges. I know my .30-06 has never shot maximum/near-maximum loads near as well as mid-range loads. That's with bullet weights from 130 to 180 grains. 200 or 220 grains may be an entirely different story, but I've never loaded beyond 200 grains.

    Perhaps your last two loads exceeded that optimum load. You can pour only so much gas into a carburetor before the engine floods.
    @Tangle

    For clarity my loads above A-2230 23.4 gr with col 2.230 this is the starting load in my accurate manual for 55gr bullet
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  12. #26
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    I loaded some cartridges specifically for this.
    Sorting headstamps and weighing cases is more than I usually do. (Federal cases, 92.9 to 93.1 gr)
    Weighed the Hornady bullets and gathered forty that were 54.8gr.
    CFE223 in ten each 26.4, 26.8, 27.2, 27.6gr.
    Now, to find time to shoot/chrono them to pass the data along.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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  13. #27
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    I'm off to try the next set with IMR 8208 XBR - back in about 2 hours.
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    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I'm off to try the next set with IMR 8208 XBR - back in about 2 hours.
    I'm going to pick up a pound of that powder or Benchmark tonight.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  15. #29
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    I'm going to go have a drink 🥃



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    Don't try to get into my head there's barely enough room for me in there .

    Sonic .

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    I'm going to go have a drink 🥃
    I'm one step (drink) ahead of you.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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