Wow! I discovered the problem! You won't believe it! - Page 2

Wow! I discovered the problem! You won't believe it!

This is a discussion on Wow! I discovered the problem! You won't believe it! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by airslot Your overthinking this. I was accused of the very same thing when I started posting about the impact of velocity variations. ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 41
Like Tree48Likes

Thread: Wow! I discovered the problem! You won't believe it!

  1. #16
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    Quote Originally Posted by airslot View Post
    Your overthinking this.
    I was accused of the very same thing when I started posting about the impact of velocity variations. But as the facts came out, it clearly showed it mattered much at longer ranges. Since I would be shooting at small targets at 500 yards, I had to "think" about velocity variations just like anyone else that shoots at long ranges.

    Not that it matters a whole lot, but how do we know residual media doesn't affect the performance of the powder? Have you tested this? I understand if the bullet comes out the end of the barrel and hits a decent group that everything is ok. But that doesn't really prove contaminants inside the case aren't taking up volume and modifying pressures. Again, at 100 - 200 yards you'd never notice it, but at 500+ things start to show up that don't at short ranges.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  2. #17
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    None, but doesn't change the fact not everything requires infinite engineering.
    Infinite engineering? Prompted by me asking what you do about the media inside the case? I find it hard to believe that's infinite engineering. As I recall I got some pretty good flack from a couple of guys because I was posting about velocity variations being significant at long ranges. Some thought I was "infinite" engineering then too. But that wasn't engineering at all, that was following the advice of top shooters.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ...But back to the matter at hand, ground walnut shells have been used to clean/polish cases for ever and no one has ever found it caused ballistic problems, which I'm sure they would have by now. Same with corn cob media, although I find it does plug flash holes. The pet store media is too fine to do that.
    I understand, but just like the velocity variations, most were completely unaware that mattered at all. My point here is I know of no long range or precision shooters that use dry media to clean cases. All I'm aware of use wet pin tumbling. That's a bunch of trouble; if they didn't gain something from it, I doubt they would use it.

    I'm not saying cleaning with dry media is not good, I'm seriously considering giving it a try today.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I understand, but just like the velocity variations, most were completely unaware that mattered at all. My point here is I know of no long range or precision shooters that use dry media to clean cases. All I'm aware of use wet pin tumbling. That's a bunch of trouble; if they didn't gain something from it, I doubt they would use it.
    Ask them why they choose wet cleaning. If they say they found dry media causes ballistic issues, then you may be on to something. It's more likely they tend to be more picky about spotlessly clean cases, which I am not. I don't even clean primer pockets, letting the media do what it can and not worry abut the rest. If walnut or corn cob causes powder problems, I'm sure the powder companies or someone would have brought it to light by now.
    Tangle likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #19
    flh
    flh is offline
    Distinguished Member Array flh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New York...NOT ...Noo Yawk
    Posts
    1,943
    I use the wet tumble with ss pins , my main reason for switching from the vibration cleaning was the dust ,

    It's a lil more labor intensive , the pins , drying etc ,
    Tangle likes this.



    Go Pack Go

  6. #20
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Ask them why they choose wet cleaning. If they say they found dry media causes ballistic issues, then you may be on to something. It's more likely they tend to be more picky about spotlessly clean cases, which I am not. I don't even clean primer pockets, letting the media do what it can and not worry abut the rest. If walnut or corn cob causes powder problems, I'm sure the powder companies or someone would have brought it to light by now.
    Good point, good point!

    Before I started using wet pin tumbling, I did ask. One of the advantages is it cleans the outside and inside cases, and the primer pockets. It does such a good job, the cases can come out looking like brand new cases. However, I typically leave the shot primers in place because I don't want to deprime first. If I did deprime first, I would do it with a hand deprimer so i wouldn't be running dirty cases through my die.

    I also, "over thought" and asked how they get the pins out of the cleaned cases. Just like me huh? I was told that the separation step would separate the pins and cases and they had never had a problem with pins in cases. Dare I ask, how do you know? But, as much pin tumbling as I've done, I've never seen the first pin in a case. Of course that doesn't mean one isn't stuck inside on the wall of a case.

    And, every now and then, my PRS buddy has an anomaly - a change in POI or a unusual velocity number. I can't help but wonder if a pin just went down the barrel.

    I've now gone back to ultrasonic. For me, the pin tumbling is just too much trouble. You have to tumble, separate cases and pins, rinse the cases, then tumble them again to remove as much "wet" as you can, collect the pins and put them back in the tumbler, and clean up the buckets. Too much trouble. With my ultrasonic I clean, rinse the unit, rinse the cases, hand tumble in a cheap manual tumbler to remove all the water I can, then I cook them to dry them - except when I forget the drying part :embarrassed:
    OldVet likes this.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  7. #21
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    I use the wet tumble with ss pins , my main reason for switching from the vibration cleaning was the dust ,

    It's a lil more labor intensive , the pins , drying etc ,
    You're making me want to go back to pin tumbling

    My PRS buddy got me using pin tumbling. He does what the top guns do since he competes with them. I was having velocity problems and thought maybe pin tumbling would clean out the insides of the cases better.

    I know what you mean about the dust, and that dust contains lead stuff too. The precautions warn to use in a well ventilated area.

    So do you deprime before you tumble? How long do you tumble?
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  8. #22
    flh
    flh is offline
    Distinguished Member Array flh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New York...NOT ...Noo Yawk
    Posts
    1,943
    Tumble , rinse , separate the pins with a magnet , leaving the brass in the rinse tray , I set the tray on the patio table to dry in the sun .. easy
    Tangle likes this.



    Go Pack Go

  9. #23
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    Tumble , rinse , separate the pins with a magnet , leaving the brass in the rinse tray , I set the tray on the patio table to dry in the sun .. easy
    Yeah, but how long do you tumble and do you deprime first?

    I use a magnet, but not quite following how you separate the pins, or maybe at what point? The pins and cases are in the tumbler. Don't you pour the whole mess into a brass catcher/separator?
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  10. #24
    flh
    flh is offline
    Distinguished Member Array flh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New York...NOT ...Noo Yawk
    Posts
    1,943
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    You're making me want to go back to pin tumbling

    My PRS buddy got me using pin tumbling. He does what the top guns do since he competes with them. I was having velocity problems and thought maybe pin tumbling would clean out the insides of the cases better.

    I know what you mean about the dust, and that dust contains lead stuff too. The precautions warn to use in a well ventilated area.

    So do you deprime before you tumble? How long do you tumble?
    I normally do not deprime , It depends on what I'm trying to accomplish, pistol, and rife range fodder I do not deprime

    If I'm attempting to shoot three fields over I'm depriming as I'm using a single stage press

    My tumbler has a timer up to 3hrs
    Tangle likes this.



    Go Pack Go

  11. #25
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    I normally do not deprime...
    Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    ...If I'm attempting to shoot three fields over I'm depriming as I'm using a single stage press...
    Hmmm, I never deprime, even for that, maybe I should give that some more thought - that seems to be pretty common thinking.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  12. #26
    flh
    flh is offline
    Distinguished Member Array flh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New York...NOT ...Noo Yawk
    Posts
    1,943
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Yeah, but how long do you tumble and do you deprime first?

    I use a magnet, but not quite following how you separate the pins, or maybe at what point? The pins and cases are in the tumbler. Don't you pour the whole mess into a brass catcher/separator?
    The basket on the right goes on the bottom it will catch everything pins etc as you can see ? there are are some pieces of walnut that came out after I tumbled some of my old brass

    Putting the two baskets together and gently shaking , and moving the brass around by hand will get most of the water and the pins out using the magnet I catch the the pins and put them back into the tumbler
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wow! I discovered the problem! You won't believe it!-img_1818.jpg  

    Wow! I discovered the problem! You won't believe it!-img_1817.jpg  

    Tangle likes this.



    Go Pack Go

  13. #27
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    Ahhh, thanks! Per instructions, I have been pouring the pins and brass into a catcher/separator/tumbler which catches the brass and drops the pins into a bucket along with the dirty water. I then tumble the brass to further separate the pins from the brass. Then I have to pour off some of the water and use the magnet to return the pins to the wet tumbler.

    While that works WELL, I still have to rinse the cases to be sure all the detergent is removed, and then tumble them again to remove all the water I can. It's a lot of steps.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  14. #28
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    And, I've only been tumbling for 2 hours, I may need to up that to 3 hours.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

  15. #29
    flh
    flh is offline
    Distinguished Member Array flh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New York...NOT ...Noo Yawk
    Posts
    1,943
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Ahhh, thanks! Per instructions, I have been pouring the pins and brass into a catcher/separator/tumbler which catches the brass and drops the pins into a bucket along with the dirty water. I then tumble the brass to further separate the pins from the brass. Then I have to pour off some of the water and use the magnet to return the pins to the wet tumbler.
    I put the baskets in the sink , pouring the dirty water , brass & pins into the baskets , rinsing while moving the brass around by hand , the pins fall through the brass catcher basket , ending up in the bottom basket .
    Tangle likes this.



    Go Pack Go

  16. #30
    Lead Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    12,862
    This is for all just a FWIW, and to show that I'm not overthinking, I'm just thinking...

    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/05/rel...#ixzz5wCppbofm
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @AMMO land on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    Please read through these reloading steps for long range shooting, several times, before beginning.
    Step 1: Place your fired brass into a tumbler for cleaning. Use a mildly abrasive media like ground corn cob. Adding a little brass polish will not only enhance the cleaning, but will extend the life of your media.
    Step 2: After removing the cases from the tumbler, make sure that all media is out of the case and clean the inside of the case neck with a neck brush to remove any powder or media residue.

    And let's all understand, we all don't need to take all steps. This just points out that things that are insignificant at short ranges may have a significant impact at long ranges.
    We don't have a gun problem in the US, We have a people problem.
    The problem we have is people that want to kill large numbers innocent people
    in Gun Free Zones.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •