Please school me on 10mm...... - Page 3

Please school me on 10mm......

This is a discussion on Please school me on 10mm...... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 Why, pure self defense. How do you back up on a snowmobile and the the snow is that deep and when ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Why, pure self defense.

    How do you back up on a snowmobile and the the snow is that deep and when someone is behind you?
    The moose had already attacked him.
    One hit in the head from one of those moose hooves and your getting coloring books for Christmas for the rest of your life.
    He fired a warning shot, and the moose appeared to keep coming.

    Most self defense law states you have to be in fear of grave bodily harm or death, I would say a 1,000 pound charging animal that has already attacked me is a good argument for a self defense shooting.

    Also, unless the man can see into the future he had no idea that moose was going to attack him.

    Its easy to Monday morning quarter back everything but to me that looks like a classic case of self defense.
    That is just city ignorance of animal behavior. That Moose would never have made contact if he had just shut down his machine and sat on it for awhile. Fear through ignorance does not make it a correct action.
    I say that only because I have been in exactly the same scenario more than once.
    If I killed every animal that charged me over the years I would have left a mountain of carcass's in my wake.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    That is just city ignorance of animal behavior. That Moose would never have made contact if he had just shut down his machine and sat on it for awhile. Fear through ignorance does not make it a correct action.
    I say that only because I have been in exactly the same scenario more than once.
    That's your opinion.

    If a moose charges me and has already struck me with its hooves, I think firing a warning shot, then using deadly force is perfectly reasonable.
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    The first part of the video has been trimmed and exposed his stupidity. The moose was way down the trail standing and looking. The guy then advanced on the moose causing the moose to defend its self.

    So I guess you are right, it was self defense, on the moose’s part. Read post 28, Forester sums it up well.

    We share the trails and we do not have right of way. People unfamiliar with the with the North woods need to be with someone that is.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    That's your opinion.

    If a moose charges me and has already struck me with its hooves, I think firing a warning shot, then using deadly force is perfectly reasonable.
    Yes, its an opinion based on actual experience. Did this idiot stop when he first saw the Moose on the trail? Or did he try and force it off with his sled?
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    I can tell you that cross country skiers can make large lateral jumps with their skis on.

    Back on topic, I do want a Sig 220 10mm, but 357 and 44 on hand make it only a want.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    That's your opinion.

    If a moose charges me and has already struck me with its hooves, I think firing a warning shot, then using deadly force is perfectly reasonable.
    It helps to avoid the situation if you're smarter or at least as smart as the moose. This idiot wasn't. Either that or he just wanted to drop the hammer on an animal that day. What a waste.
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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    It helps to avoid the situation if you're smarter or at least as smart as the moose. This idiot wasn't. Either that or he just wanted to drop the hammer on an animal that day. What a waste.
    Makes me wonder about his de escalation skills while in the city.
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    I recently got my first 10 mm. Honestly, 45 and 10 are so close in performance it wasn't a caliber choice but rather a platform choice. Springfield offered the 10 mm in a full sized XDm OSP package, and it seemed ideal for my woods needs.

    Around here we have black bears; neighbor just had one peeking in their sliding glass door a week ago. When I hunt here in the neighborhood (urban archery) I may cross paths with bears, coyotes, and angry raccoons. I may also run into methheads or gangs cooking poison in our suburban woods.

    So a 15 round gun, plus 2 mags to balance it, in a new Nelson shoulder holster covers all those bases well.

    Plus it's a fun gun to shoot.
    100 yards:
    From time to time I have thought about getting a Gen4 Glock 20, but have just not made the move. I don't go into the woods in our area so I don't see the need for this caliber in that department. I have several .40S&W guns which I load with Speer Gold Dot #53970 (their hotter load) in the off season. While a fine SD load against humans, it would be marginal against a black bear, which we do have in the area, unless you were able to get off multiple shots in effective parts of the animal. For coyotes, which we also have, they wouldn't stand a chance against this load.

    I see the Glock 20, loaded with something like Double Tap or Underwood, as a great side arm to carry into areas where one may be likely to run across dangerous game. It is on a par power-wise with the .357 Magnum but exceeds that cartridge in the capacity department, thereby making it a solid gun to have in those areas.

    BTW, great shooting and nice new gun you have there.
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    In the proper platform, .45 super stomps 10mm...
    No, not exactly. Platform doesn't make one round more effective ballistically than another. I have both. They are different, designed for different purposes. I have a Glock 21 (with a barrel that will tolerate the 45 Super) and I have a Glock 20 (designed from the ground up to handle the high intensity 10mm - no barrel changing necessary. Here are the two hottest loads available for each one:

    https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...18785700249657

    https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...18785704607801

    As is easily seen, Underwood loads a 115gr 10mm to 1700 fps / 738 ft lbs, while they load a 120gr 45 Super to 1600 fps / 682 ft lbs. Pretty close, but the strength of the Super is in propelling a 230gr JHP well beyond any normal .45 ACP loading. The 10mm 180gr JHP loading and the 185gr JHP Super loads are virtually identical, ballistically.

    [ Just a foot note: Underwood loads a 65gr Extreme Penetrator in .357 Sig to 2100 fps / 636 ft lbs - different tool ]

    So, the Super in no way stomps the 10mm. Different tools for different jobs. I have a 6 inch barrel for the G20 that pushes the 10mm even faster and flatter shooting.

    The conclusion lies in the usual answer here on DC. Get one of each. Both are a hoot to shoot and they fill different niches in your toolbox.
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  11. #40
    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    …….. The conclusion lies in the usual answer here on DC. Get one of each. Both are a hoot to shoot and they fill different niches in your toolbox.

    Why stop at one of each? I have eight .45 ACP and five 10mm handguns.
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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shootnlead View Post
    Just a matter using the right bullet and load.

    I have shot enough critters with 255gr cast bullets to know that a 10mm will not out perform them. A 255gr flat point cast bullet at 900fps from a .45acp will kill anything with at least equal efficiency of a 10mm.

    I did misspeak...the trajectory of the .45acp is not the equal of the 10mm, but I was not really speaking to long range accuracy with my comment...but the killing power is...and you can believe that or not...entirely up to you.

    If you think that the 10mm is superior...go forth in that belief.
    It may work equally well for the "critters" that you are shooting with it, but they are still not equal. It may be comparable to some weaker 10mm loads, but not even close to a full power 10mm.
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  13. #42
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    Why stop at one of each? I have eight .45 ACP and five 10mm handguns.
    Indeed...hoorah!
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Here is a live action video of 10mm taking down a moose. https://www.full30.com/watch/MDA3NDg...-on-snowmobile
    On a side note, that was awful. That individual has an IQ and ego problem.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    On a side note, that was awful. That individual has an IQ and ego problem.
    Though it doesn't really matter, but I will never kill an animal unless it it absolutely unavoidable. I will go to great lengths to avoid a confrontation with critters. About the only thing I am aggressive about is venomous snakes in the back yard around the little kids. If I can't relocate the snake, or get someone to relocate it for me, it gets dispatched. Not usually with a gun though. Just me.

    EDIT Forgot. @graydude Excellent looking rig.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shootnlead View Post
    .45acp will do anything that 10mm will do...just never found a reason to own a 10. If Glock had not resurrected it...it would have been gone years and years ago. The ONLY reason it is still around is because of Glock.
    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    I recently got my first 10 mm. Honestly, 45 and 10 are so close in performance it wasn't a caliber choice but rather a platform choice. Springfield offered the 10 mm in a full sized XDm OSP package, and it seemed ideal for my woods needs.

    Around here we have black bears; neighbor just had one peeking in their sliding glass door a week ago. When I hunt here in the neighborhood (urban archery) I may cross paths with bears, coyotes, and angry raccoons. I may also run into methheads or gangs cooking poison in our suburban woods.

    So a 15 round gun, plus 2 mags to balance it, in a new Nelson shoulder holster covers all those bases well.

    Plus it's a fun gun to shoot.
    100 yards:
    I think this post is worth looking at AGAIN....WOW.....nice rig and great shooting! I’ve been looking at the Springfield 10mm as I already own a 9mm and 45ACP. Your setup is one I would strongly consider for myself. Thanks for posting!
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