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As a gun carrier

This is a discussion on As a gun carrier within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; There were two mom & pop hardware stores in town , one one put up a sign " No guns allowed " The other up ...

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  1. #16
    flh
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    There were two mom & pop hardware stores in town , one one put up a sign " No guns allowed "


    The other up this sign , now there is one hardware store
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  2. #17
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    No-Gun signs carry no legal weight here in FL. I have only seen a few places with them, so it is not much of an issue.

    Toy-r-us, which is out of business; I've heard Buffalo Wild Wings does, but I have not been to the only one here, too many wing places nearby; and the hospitals and some medical facilities. The hospitals "technically" are not off limits per state CC laws, but most have guards and metal detectors now to make carrying moot. The one medical facility I used to used no longer has the signage.

    I often go places where CC is illegal per state law: minor league baseball games, bar areas for dinner, etc. The ball field has signage, none of the bar/dining facilities do.

    Businesses can make whatever policies they wish. I can either accept them or go elsewhere. Going elsewhere isn't much of an issue around here.
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  3. #18
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    I lean toward avoiding entering any business which posts a NO GUNS sign. The only time I would consider going there is if they have something I want or need that I cannot find elsewhere. BTW in my state, such signs do not carry the force of law. If I happened into such a place and my sidearm was spotted, I may be asked to leave, at which time I would. If I declined to leave, I may open myself up to the police being summoned and a charge of trespassing made against me, the decision of which would be up to the proprietor or his agent.
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  5. #19
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    The only right I have that trumps their right to restrict carrying in their place of business is my right not to conduct MY business there.
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  6. #20
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    I don't think my rights take precedence over theirs. It is their business to run as they see fit. I don't agree with it and mostly won't frequent posted businesses. But, I will not let it stop me from going there is they have an item that I want or need.

    I really don't care what rules businesses make.
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  7. #21
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    some ones house that don't allow guns, I don't go there, same for Gun Shops, and I find gun Shops that don't allow CC hypocritical.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    There were two mom & pop hardware stores in town , one one put up a sign " No guns allowed "


    The other up this sign , now there is one hardware store
    the gun shop I go now to doesn't have the sign, but one day two black youngers walked in both with trench coats, on a Miami 98 degree heat, I said to the owner I'm on the opposite corner if you need me, he went to them kind of HOT for the trench coat bothers, they say something about working in the flower shop, not one in that shopping center though, they look around and left, you have to be some kind of special idiot to try to rob a gun shop though.
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  9. #23
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    It depends. Last week I went to get a flu shot. The last time I went it wasn't posted, this time it was. Had I been prepared I would have honored it and I will next year but I wasn't going to obviously go back out to my car and secure my gun after reading the sign.

  10. #24
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    I simply abide by the law.
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  11. #25
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    The Pawn/Gun shop I used decades ago never had a sign, Then one day there was one. I asked about it he said insurance was required him to post. As OV stated signage has no teeth, but have not seen but a few. I'll take my money else where ; )
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  12. #26
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    The security and safety of my family and myself outweigh the POLICY decision of an open to the public business. A closed access business, like behind the fence at Lockheed Martin, or a private home, is a different story.

    For example, in Colorado, the "no weapons" clause of a mall or theater code of conduct has no more weight than "no bare feet" or "no outside food". If the location in question has a "no profanity on clothing" policy, does my t-shirt covered in four letter expletives violate it if I keep my hoodie on? Why is my concealed firearm any different? Should I be prohibited from wearing flips flops since its too easy to violate the "no bare feet' rule? Should I remove myself from the list of law-abiding citizens because I brought a piece of beef jerky into the movie theater in my cargo shorts?

    The tasseled loafer wearing insurance lawyers who mandated such policies are sure NOT coming to your aid in the event of an incident, so why would I allow myself to be disarmed just to make them feel good about themselves?
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    No I do not put my wants to carry over a private property owners rights.
    But I also will spend my money elsewhere. That is My Right.
    Absolutely! Store owner doesn't want me to protect myself, they obviously don't want my money. No problem...
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    1. Do you put YOUR wants to carry over that of a retail stores wants to not allow carrying in their place of business?

    2. Why do you believe your right to carry trumps the store owners rights to deny access to those carrying a firearm?

    Just what makes someone believe they have the right to dictate how someone who's got skin in the game opening a retail store operates said business?
    You asked for my position on this and I am obliging you by giving it. I have no doubt by the way your questions were worded you probably won't agree and others may not also. Frankly I donít give a hoot of what anyoneís opinion of this is. I have no illusions of convincing anyone and no one should have any illusions of convincing me. I am not going to argue or answer questions on any of these points. First, let me say that I will avoid posted businesses if I can, on principle. But sometimes that is not possible. To your question, I can see several possible, independent arguments here:

    Argument 1: In my state, carrying past a ďno gunsĒ sign is not a crime. A crime only happens if the proprietor asks me to leave because I am carrying a gun and I refuse. Then it is only a trespass misdemeanor. The proprietor is not going to know I am carrying, so he is not going to ask me to leave because of it. If he did, I would leave. If I am in compliance with the law, I donít believe I am violating anyoneís rights.

    Argument 2: The RTKABA is a natural right. COTUS says the government canít infringe on that (even though they do). I donít think anyone has the right to infringe on the natural right. Do you lose your right to defend yourself in a store? Well, if you let a store deny you the RTKABA, you may have given up that right.

    It is not correct to say that a property owner has a "right to deny access to those carrying a firearm." I think saying so is buying to the anti-gun narrative. What a property owner has the right to do is invite me onto his property or dis-invite my off his property. If he invites me on his property, I have a right to privacy that says what I have hidden on my person is none of his damn business. Maybe he is an abolitionist and teetotaler and I have a flask of whiskey in my pocket. None of his business. Maybe he is a vegan and I have a package of beef jerky in my pocket. None of his business. Maybe he is anti-gun and I have a gun in my pocket. Same answer.

    Argument 3: If we are talking a store, it is a public venue. The owner cannot refuse my presence based on race, creed, color or sexual orientation. I donít believe he should be able refuse based on me exercising my natural RTKABA in a way that does not disturb his business.

    Argument 4: Gun free zones are criminal empowerment zones. Survival is my #1 priority. It is not just survival in his store, it is also survival to and from the parking lot. If I have to go on his property, he does not have the right to make me a sitting duck.

    Argument 5: Hoplophobes donít respect my rights. I will be damned if I will respect theirs.
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    You asked for my position on this and I am obliging you by giving it. I have no doubt by the way your questions were worded you probably won't agree and others may not also. Frankly I donít give a hoot of what anyoneís opinion of this is. I have no illusions of convincing anyone and no one should have any illusions of convincing me. I am not going to argue or answer questions on any of these points. First, let me say that I will avoid posted businesses if I can, on principle. But sometimes that is not possible. To your question, I can see several possible, independent arguments here:

    Argument 1: In my state, carrying past a ďno gunsĒ sign is not a crime. A crime only happens if the proprietor asks me to leave because I am carrying a gun and I refuse. Then it is only a trespass misdemeanor. The proprietor is not going to know I am carrying, so he is not going to ask me to leave because of it. If he did, I would leave. If I am in compliance with the law, I donít believe I am violating anyoneís rights.

    Argument 2: The RTKABA is a natural right. COTUS says the government canít infringe on that (even though they do). I donít think anyone has the right to infringe on the natural right. Do you lose your right to defend yourself in a store? Well, if you let a store deny you the RTKABA, you may have given up that right.

    It is not correct to say that a property owner has a "right to deny access to those carrying a firearm." I think saying so is buying to the anti-gun narrative. What a property owner has the right to do is invite me onto his property or dis-invite my off his property. If he invites me on his property, I have a right to privacy that says what I have hidden on my person is none of his damn business. Maybe he is an abolitionist and teetotaler and I have a flask of whiskey in my pocket. None of his business. Maybe he is a vegan and I have a package of beef jerky in my pocket. None of his business. Maybe he is anti-gun and I have a gun in my pocket. Same answer.

    Argument 3: If we are talking a store, it is a public venue. The owner cannot refuse my presence based on race, creed, color or sexual orientation. I donít believe he should be able refuse based on me exercising my natural RTKABA in a way that does not disturb his business.

    Argument 4: Gun free zones are criminal empowerment zones. Survival is my #1 priority. It is not just survival in his store, it is also survival to and from the parking lot. If I have to go on his property, he does not have the right to make me a sitting duck.

    Argument 5: Hoplophobes donít respect my rights. I will be damned if I will respect theirs.
    Not much there to disagree with or take exception to, IMO.
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  16. #30
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    You asked for my position on this and I am obliging you by giving it. I have no doubt by the way your questions were worded you probably won't agree and others may not also. Frankly I donít give a hoot of what anyoneís opinion of this is. I have no illusions of convincing anyone and no one should have any illusions of convincing me. I am not going to argue or answer questions on any of these points. First, let me say that I will avoid posted businesses if I can, on principle. But sometimes that is not possible. To your question, I can see several possible, independent arguments here:

    Argument 1: In my state, carrying past a ďno gunsĒ sign is not a crime. A crime only happens if the proprietor asks me to leave because I am carrying a gun and I refuse. Then it is only a trespass misdemeanor. The proprietor is not going to know I am carrying, so he is not going to ask me to leave because of it. If he did, I would leave. If I am in compliance with the law, I donít believe I am violating anyoneís rights.

    Argument 2: The RTKABA is a natural right. COTUS says the government canít infringe on that (even though they do). I donít think anyone has the right to infringe on the natural right. Do you lose your right to defend yourself in a store? Well, if you let a store deny you the RTKABA, you may have given up that right.

    It is not correct to say that a property owner has a "right to deny access to those carrying a firearm." I think saying so is buying to the anti-gun narrative. What a property owner has the right to do is invite me onto his property or dis-invite my off his property. If he invites me on his property, I have a right to privacy that says what I have hidden on my person is none of his damn business. Maybe he is an abolitionist and teetotaler and I have a flask of whiskey in my pocket. None of his business. Maybe he is a vegan and I have a package of beef jerky in my pocket. None of his business. Maybe he is anti-gun and I have a gun in my pocket. Same answer.

    Argument 3: If we are talking a store, it is a public venue. The owner cannot refuse my presence based on race, creed, color or sexual orientation. I donít believe he should be able refuse based on me exercising my natural RTKABA in a way that does not disturb his business.

    Argument 4: Gun free zones are criminal empowerment zones. Survival is my #1 priority. It is not just survival in his store, it is also survival to and from the parking lot. If I have to go on his property, he does not have the right to make me a sitting duck.

    Argument 5: Hoplophobes donít respect my rights. I will be damned if I will respect theirs.
    Let me get this straight, carrying a gun is a natural right? I don't think so. If it were a natural right guns would have been invented during adam and eves era. You have a natural right to defend your life, you don't have a natural right to defend yourself with a firearm.

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