Should the Gun Community Police It's Own-Negligent Discharge Into Adjoining Home-

Should the Gun Community Police It's Own-Negligent Discharge Into Adjoining Home-

This is a discussion on Should the Gun Community Police It's Own-Negligent Discharge Into Adjoining Home- within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/...?utm=newsbreak According this article, a man in his 20's pointed his "unloaded" pistol at the wall between two adjoining town houses and pulled the trigger ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array AnthonyC's Avatar
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    Should the Gun Community Police It's Own-Negligent Discharge Into Adjoining Home-

    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/...?utm=newsbreak

    According this article, a man in his 20's pointed his "unloaded" pistol at the wall between two adjoining town houses and pulled the trigger sending a bullet through several walls of the neighbors home and into her daughter's bedroom.

    I am as Pro-Rights and Pro-2A as everyone else on here but stuff like this drives me crazy! The carelessness of this owner and his disregard for the lives of the people around him infuriates me as it gives credence to anti-gunners argument that having a gun in the home is more likely to harm yourself and your family. Or accidents happen all the time around guns.

    I don't think that responsible gun owners can ignore these incidents however I haven't come up with any acceptable idea to rectify this other than education. Should middle school and high school kids be offered gun safety courses? Should gun/hunter safety classes be mandatory for gun ownership? How do the responsible owners respond when questioned about a$$holes who do this?

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    Distinguished Member Array CavemanBob's Avatar
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    Do you feel the same about car owners?
    The best citizenry is an informed citizenry

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    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Firearms training was given to my kids by me. I don't think its the schools or Governments responsibility to mold boys into men or girls into women. That is the job of family. You can't legislate for morality or stupidity.
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    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
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    Accidents happen. There are many members here that have had a neglegent discharge.

    As to your questions:

    Should middle school and high school kids be offered gun safety courses? Yes but I'd start it before middle school.

    Should gun/hunter safety classes be mandatory for gun ownership? Absolutely NOT! Name one other constitutional right that requires safety classes. Don't say driving, that's a privilege not a right

    How do the responsible owners respond when questioned about a$$holes who do this? Accidents happen. It's not like he wanted to shoot through a wall potentially killing someone

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    Distinguished Member Array GpTom's Avatar
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    Responsible gun owners cannot be expected to control the actions of others any more than decent people would be responsible for the actions of criminals. Even though anti gun people try to make all gun owners guilty for the misdeeds of those who can't seem to understand that the rights of gun owners should come with a responsibility to handle weapons carefully and cautiously. Did that come out right?

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    The price of living in a free society is we have to deal with or tolerate fools. I'm of the opinion that the financial costs of this kind of stupitidy is the limiting factor. I'd seriously consider suing the miscreant. Let alone criminal charges that could be brought to bear.
    Accidents do happen and training does need to be front and center (as for cars there is Drivers Ed) for all the good it does for fools.

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    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Police our own? Like with tar and feathers?

    Yeah, stupid actions by others can be infuriating. But the best thing is to use these incidents as teaching moments for other gun owners.

    Because of such teaching moments being shared in hunters ed courses, for example, the number of accidental shootings while crossing fences has gone down.

    This particular incident could have been prevented by having a bucket of sand as the "always point here" target when indoors. Yes, he should have double and triple checked clear before pulling the trigger, but a secondary safety (good backstop, sand) and the habit to always point at it could have changed the outcome.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    There are already laws in most states dealing with irresponsible discharge of a firearm, reckless endangerment, etc. A guy like that should be cited for any laws he has violated. I imagine he could also be sued. Apparently, normal laws are not in operation in Minnesota.

    I can't imagine what appropriate role gun owners themselves would have in "policing" this kind of behavior and I am against more laws regulating gun ownership. Individuals need to be held accountable for their misdeeds. Ironically, it is the gun-grabbing Democrats in my state that have voted down mandatory sentencing for crimes committed using a firearm, while voting in legislation to restrict gun ownership for the law abiding. This a slippery slope were are already too far down.
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    I prefer people have the freedom to be held responsible for their stupid actions. It is not my job as a fellow firearms owner to police every Tom, Dick and Harriet out there.
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    In general, the only laws in our legal system should be ones that punish (criminal) and ones that recuperate losses (civil). No laws should be written to prohibit. If one kills someone or injures them by accident, then we already have our civil and criminal laws in place to handle these situations.

    Mandatory training should not be done by the government. I would support if schools did adopt real gun safety courses that focused on safety only. The 2A and other things are suited for the Civics class (and we know that is going these days, right?).
    airslot and Hoganbeg like this.

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    AnthonyC, according to you, I am a butt hole. I made a mistake last year and experienced a negligent discharge in my home. I've probably had more firearms training than many people on this forum (19 courses so far) from some of the top trainers in the U.S. I'm not a dummy, nor am I a careless person. I made a mistake. Human beings do that at times.
    You are your own first responder.

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    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    AnthonyC, according to you, I am a butt hole. I made a mistake last year and experienced a negligent discharge in my home. I've probably had more firearms training than many people on this forum (19 courses so far) from some of the top trainers in the U.S. I'm not a dummy, nor am I a careless person. I made a mistake. Human beings do that at times.
    Welcome to the club . . . butthole!
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    VIP Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyC View Post
    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/...?utm=newsbreak

    According this article, a man in his 20's pointed his "unloaded" pistol at the wall between two adjoining town houses and pulled the trigger sending a bullet through several walls of the neighbors home and into her daughter's bedroom.

    I am as Pro-Rights and Pro-2A as everyone else on here but stuff like this drives me crazy! The carelessness of this owner and his disregard for the lives of the people around him infuriates me as it gives credence to anti-gunners argument that having a gun in the home is more likely to harm yourself and your family. Or accidents happen all the time around guns.

    I don't think that responsible gun owners can ignore these incidents however I haven't come up with any acceptable idea to rectify this other than education. Should middle school and high school kids be offered gun safety courses? Should gun/hunter safety classes be mandatory for gun ownership? How do the responsible owners respond when questioned about a$$holes who do this?
    Education is generally the cure for most everything wrong with society. As others have noted, it is a teachable moment for others, there is no legislative fix for stupidity, and more laws will only further infringe an already beleaguered right.

    According to the article, this fellow is getting kicked out for violation of the rules (discharge of a firearm). With everyone doing criminal background checks before renting theses days, I suspect he might have some difficulty finding new lodgings. Hopefully that will be enough incentive for him to pull his head out!
    “Propaganda will never die out. Intelligent men must realize that propaganda is the modern instrument by which they can fight for productive ends and help to bring order out of chaos.”
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    Member Array AnthonyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    Firearms training was given to my kids by me. I don't think its the schools or Governments responsibility to mold boys into men or girls into women. That is the job of family. You can't legislate for morality or stupidity.
    I definitively agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    Accidents happen. There are many members here that have had a neglegent discharge.

    As to your questions:

    Should middle school and high school kids be offered gun safety courses? Yes but I'd start it before middle school.

    Should gun/hunter safety classes be mandatory for gun ownership? Absolutely NOT! Name one other constitutional right that requires safety classes. Don't say driving, that's a privilege not a right

    How do the responsible owners respond when questioned about a$$holes who do this? Accidents happen. It's not like he wanted to shoot through a wall potentially killing someone
    I don't think it should be mandatory either. I was just asking what others thought and if they had any ideas that would better educate people.

    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Police our own? Like with tar and feathers?

    Yeah, stupid actions by others can be infuriating. But the best thing is to use these incidents as teaching moments for other gun owners.

    Because of such teaching moments being shared in hunters ed courses, for example, the number of accidental shootings while crossing fences has gone down.

    This particular incident could have been prevented by having a bucket of sand as the "always point here" target when indoors. Yes, he should have double and triple checked clear before pulling the trigger, but a secondary safety (good backstop, sand) and the habit to always point at it could have changed the outcome.
    I agree that this is a teachable moment. You mention hunter ed courses have cut down on accidental shootings. Are
    hunter safety courses required in your state? In order to receive a hunting license here, all first time hunters must take a hunter's ed class. I think most on this forum agree that taking one is a good idea as most would agree that firearms training is a good idea. However, mandating firearms training to own one is very divisive.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    There are already laws in most states dealing with irresponsible discharge of a firearm, reckless endangerment, etc. A guy like that should be cited for any laws he has violated. I imagine he could also be sued. Apparently, normal laws are not in operation in Minnesota.

    I can't imagine what appropriate role gun owners themselves would have in "policing" this kind of behavior and I am against more laws regulating gun ownership. Individuals need to be held accountable for their misdeeds. Ironically, it is the gun-grabbing Democrats in my state that have voted down mandatory sentencing for crimes committed using a firearm, while voting in legislation to restrict gun ownership for the law abiding. This a slippery slope were are already too far down.
    I can't either which is why I asked. I don't have to be for increased laws and regulations (which I think are almost entirely useless) but I still think it is worthwhile to brainstorm about ideas to reduce negligent discharges.

    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    AnthonyC, according to you, I am a butt hole. I made a mistake last year and experienced a negligent discharge in my home. I've probably had more firearms training than many people on this forum (19 courses so far) from some of the top trainers in the U.S. I'm not a dummy, nor am I a careless person. I made a mistake. Human beings do that at times.
    I do not know if you are or aren't a butt hole. I agree that humans make mistakes and that a person isn't a terrible person if the make one, including a negligent discharge.
    However, the Minnesota man in the article broke all four of the rules of gun safety! He did not treat the gun as if it was loaded, he pointed the gun at something he didn't want destroyed (presumably), he was sure of his target and what was behind it, and he put his finger on the trigger and pulled it when he did not want it to go off. Therefore, Minnesota man is a butt hole.

    I am not writing that I want to start policing gun owners but I thought it might be interesting to have a discussion about this and see if there were any better ideas out there. Just wanted to brainstorm about how our community can help decrease this problem.

    Personally, I am a "very small government" guy. I don't think mandatory classes are helpful rather they hurt the poor and disadvantaged. I think that the vast majority of time, the government makes things more inefficient and onerous.
    I think that ingenuity and entrepreneurships comes up with much better solutions. Regarding gun safety and training:
    SIRT pistols
    Glock Striker Control Device AKA The Glock Gadget
    Chamber Flags
    Snap Caps
    Magazines only for Dry Fire Training
    As well as the gun manufacturers themselves who are designing guns that don't require the trigger to be pulled for disassembly.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Mandatory training is a bad idea for an enumerated right. However, the various gun orgs should, IMO, improve access to low or no cost (to the recipient) firearms safety training.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth

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