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1911 reliability

11K views 115 replies 53 participants last post by  Deaf Smith 
#1 ·
This is for the 1911 experts. When I was coming up, 50-odd years ago, the 1911 was considered by many to be the most reliable auto out there. I competed with one in the Navy and I have owned a MK IV Series 70, low serial #, for years and only had one malfunction with it ever, but that one was a doozy. It locked up in a shooting class to the point that TRB would not work and the mag would not drop. It took the instructor and I working on it, always pointed downrange of course, with a screwdriver to get it cleared. A round had sort of gone nose down somehow in the action, I can't really describe it. But then it ran fine again. I figured it was a mag problem, so I bought Wilson mags for it, but I really haven't had a chance to put it through its paces.

But now I am hearing on gun websites like TFB that 1911s are not considered reliable any more. A lot of trash talking. People talk about "reliability jobs" and "guns that are more reliable than a 1911," etc. I also saw the other thread running about a Kimber that is having problems. I thought that brand was pretty high-end. So what is the verdict? Is the design reliable or not? If not, why not? Or is it just relative to newer designs? Are there different manufacturers/models that have different reliability reputations?
 
#3 ·
When dozens of manufacturers make a "type" (TYPE being a 1911) of gun in so many different sizes and different price ranges, how can anyone classify that "type" in any way at all? Some are going to be fantastic and some junk or barely more than junk.

Keep in mind that "if it is mechanical it can break." This is in contrast to "if it is electronic it WILL fail."
 
#14 ·
Keep in mind that "if it is mechanical it can break." This is in contrast to "if it is electronic it WILL fail."
As a repair guy in the IT field I deal with a variety of mechanical and now mostly electronic devices. You are incorrect. Everything fails always. It's why I have a job.

All mechanical devices also fail. They eventually wear down. The only question is, when will they reach the point that parts need replacing? For most shooters, that essentially means never as long as they do basic maintenance to allow proper functionality.

Failure doesn't mean poor quality. The reason FOR the failure determines whether or not the item that failed was crap. The 1911 design has been a solid performer from what I've personally seen. My cheap Rock Island Arms 1911 has never failed me. I don't shoot it much, and do maintenance before and after range trips. That gun will never wear out at the rate I shoot it. I can't seem to trade it off, as it was my first purchased handgun.
 
#12 ·
I hear ya 100%!

The problem is that 1911 of 2 World Wars, is not the same 1911 we have today. Today's 1911s seem to be built to much tighter tolerances and that's counterproductive to reliability. The military 1911s were/are loose as a goose so to speak and very reliable. They went through blood and mud and came out shooting.

Having said that, the only reason I don't carry a modern 1911, is NOT because I'm concerned about reliability, but because they're so heavy. When I was younger, I carried a 1911 regularly and went through two 5 day pistol classes at Gunsite and another one at Thunder Ranch and never had a problem. I did see problems with other non-1911 pistols.

One of my 1911s was built by Gunsite, I built the next two for the next two courses. Never had a problem. But then I wasn't down in the dirt, etc.
 
#6 ·
In my own day, I used 1911s a lot...but only in competition, and in practice for competition, not in real gunfights.
A properly maintained 1911 is always reliable. Always.
However, 1911 magazines sometimes fail, and when one does, it's always at the wrong time.

When something goes wrong with a 1911, it will more than likely be the fault of the magazine in use at that moment.
Broken internal parts are indeed possible, a critical component being the barrel bushing; but still the fault will more likely be the magazine, rather than anything else.

The feed lips of 1911 magazines are springs, generally speaking, and controlling their heat treatment and maintaining their temper is critical to the pistol's function. If they stop being springs, the magazine fails.
When a 1911 magazine fails, it is generally because the feed lips lose their temper (either softening or embrittling), or because the area below and to the rear of the feed lips develops one or more cracks in the metal due to metal fatigue.

But the pistol itself will always be reliable, if it has been well maintained.
 
#7 ·
I've owned 1911 "type" pistols since the '60s, was issued 1911A1s in the military, later became Colt O-Frame armorer,etc. IMHO, much of the reliability issue is what ShooterGranny said. So many manufacturers building 1911"type" guns with various components, specifications, tolerances, QC or lack of same, etc. Within my humble experience, the 1911 types of the last approx 20 years are more reliable and consistent gun-to-gun than a number of my prior guns. I experienced the most reliability issues with the much vaunted Colt 70 Series Government and Gold Cup models. Guns that, in high condition, are prized by collectors now days.

I carried a Series '80 Govt. Model full time for several years before retiring from LE. It required no reliability work. I would not have carried that 1911 type pistol if it had proven unreliable. FWIW, I still prefer the traditional unramped barrel in .45 ACP "1911s", but the integrally ramped type barrels in 9MM, 38 Super, 10MM, etc. The ramped type not only provide superior case head support for these higher pressure cartridges, but in the case of the 9MM, make for a 1911 type pistol as reliable as a good 1911 type pistol in the "proper" .45 ACP caliber.

Reference Kimbers, I've owned half a dozen in the last 20 years. One had an easily correctable reliability issue as received. The other 5 were boringly reliable from Day 1, without any fiddling, adjusting, parts changing, polishing, or cursing. If I so desired, I would have no hesitation in carrying the Kimber I still own.....
 
#9 ·
I had a S70 MK4 back in the late 70's and it ran like a well oiled machine. Should have kept it but the stupid in me traded it away in the 80's. Now I have a Kimber that's seen countless rounds down range...literally lost count. It's old enough to have a bit of holster wear now. And with all the use and different ammo loads, it's never once had a failure of any type.

A friend of mine competes in bowling pin shoots and uses a S70 Mk4 1911 that he bought back when I had mine in the 70's. He's done a lot to it to make the pistol competition worthy and has always said that problems with the 1911 are usually related to ammo and not the gun, unless there is noticeable damage to a component of the feeding and extraction system in the pistol. That series of Colt was not terribly tight on fit tolerances so there shouldn't be any issues normally.
BTW: at his club where they hold the pin competition, the guy who holds the club record clears the table of 6 pins in just under two seconds with a 1911. It's pretty amazing.

So mag choice, feed ramp, extractor and related components should be examined if you are experiencing issues. And polished, if you detect any burrs or dings, etc.
 
#13 ·
That series of Colt was not terribly tight on fit tolerances so there shouldn't be any issues normally.
I wonder about the fingered "collet" barrel bushing on the Series 70. It doesn't seem like anyone, including Colt, stayed with that idea. Could that be an issue? I wonder why it did not catch on.
 
#10 ·
I have only owned one and it was as reliable as any gun I have owned but, I believe those of us who take care of things have fewer issues with any gun.
Someone said and I don't remember if they were talking 1911 or revolvers or what but something like "If your the type of person who just pushes your lawnmower into the shed at the end of the season with gas in the tank and packed with grass get a Glock (or was it revolver?)."
"If you clean it, stabilize the fuel and sharpen the blade for next season your a 1911 type"
 
#11 ·
If a government or commander size 1911 is not reliable, fair odds it could be a magazine issue; Tripp/Cobra 7 round flush fit are my pick for a 45 acp 1911
I've got a couple of Ruger 1911's in 45 acp and they have been reliable including various HP - overly kinked plunger tube spring replaced to make thumb safety more positive.
Kimber TLE and Ruger in 10mm - reliable with flush fit 8 round Colt/Metalform mags, not so much with Wilson 9 round - For me that is a magazine issue, carry it with what works.
Another Ruger 10mm works with those Wilson 9 round mags.
 
#15 ·
1911 reliability issues in my personal experience

Most seem to stem from;

1. The farther you get from Browning's specifications, the more problems you are likely to encounter.

2. The number of 1911 manufacturers today, everybody and their brother seems to produce them their way. (normally gets back to 1.)

3. Magazines, some people will spend thousands on a 1911 and then turn around and buy the cheapest mags they can.

4. 1911 owners themselves, way to many think they know the platform and they don't actually have a clue.
 
#23 ·
Most seem to stem from;

1. The farther you get from Browning's specifications, the more problems you are likely to encounter.

2. The number of 1911 manufacturers today, everybody and their brother seems to produce them their way. (normally gets back to 1.)

3. Magazines, some people will spend thousands on a 1911 and then turn around and buy the cheapest mags they can.

4. 1911 owners themselves, way to many think they know the platform and they don't actually have a clue.
Well said - most issues can be traced (IMHO) to manufacturers / smiths building guns differing from JMB’s design because they “know better” without truly understanding or knowing better.

I have multiple 1911’s, they are dead reliable over 10’s of thousands of rounds - if they aren’t they go to someone I trust to repair them (Jardine, Milks or Rogers). Owners need to properly clean and maintain the guns & use a quality magazine.

Kimbers has their problems & have a rep that they seemingly will never live down but they also make decent guns & if your desire is for a non colt base gun for a build Kimber or Springfield are equal for that purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#16 ·
I've scratched my head about the "1911 suck" style videos and articles. Seems like everyone wants to follow James Yeager's lead. I suppose modern designs are inherently more reliable; might be inevitable after a century of design work. But I keep my guns pretty clean and properly lubricated, perhaps that has something to do with it? Not sure.

The only 1911 I've had that has had problems was my Colt Lightweight Defender, when it was new (not counting the brass to face, that's anther issue). It shook out after several hundred rounds and seems to run fine now.

I've never had a problem with my Combat Elite (Government, 1500+ rounds down the pipe) or my Commander sized 1911's (Colt commander (600+ rounds), Ed Brown Kobra Carry (300+ rounds).

I've said this before - the bottom line for me is that I consider every gun I purchase for a potential carry gun as unreliable until it has shown itself to be reliable. That means I have to take it to the range and make sure it runs, or work out any kinks that I might encounter.

If I have a Glock that jams consistently, it's of no help to me if people claim Glocks are reliable. Likewise, if I have a 1911 that runs reliably, why do I care if James Yeager & c. say 1911's suck?

As for your case, every once in a while a gun may have a hiccup. If you get your 1911 out again and goes through several boxes of ammo without a hitch, I wouldn't worry about the past jam.
 
#18 ·
@OD*: Great feedback. What you suggest is the only way I have ever been able to take down my Series 70. I could never figure out any other way to do it. I suppose if someone really forced it, it could happen. But I always figure that if anything beyond a little force is required taking a gun down, I'm doing it wrong.
 
#19 ·
@OD*: Great feedback. What you suggest is the only way I have ever been able to take down my Series 70. I could never figure out any other way to do it. I suppose if someone really forced it, it could happen. But I always figure that if anything beyond a little force is required taking a gun down, I'm doing it wrong.
Bingo, well stated!

Iffin' it don't move easily, don't force it. You learned the procedure on your own, if more people would have, the collet bushing might still be around. They do in fact work very well, if they were fitted correctly from the factory.
 
#22 ·
Anything that is mechanical is prone to break something sooner or later.
I don’t care what pistol design.
I have shot and carried the 1911 platform and it’s modern clones my whole life.
I will bet my life on them.
My dad’s Colt from the war, and my Sig’s have never let me down.
I am anal about maintenance and replacing parts BEFORE they are worn out.
Just buy a 1911 as close to Browing’s design as possible and stick with quality mags and I will put the reliability of my pistol up against anything
 
#24 ·
My 1911s have seen moderately hard use in competition for about 7 years now. The newest guy is a Springfield Trophy Match which is around the 20,000 round mark. The only things I've replaced are what I consider normal maintenance items, namely recoil springs and an extractor. I use high-quality magazines, all Wilsons.

The 9mm Range Officer is probably closer to 30K rounds through it. Once I found the winning combination of cartridge OAL and magazines (Dawson and Wilson), the gun's been as reliable as the Swiss railroad system.

The only times the guns have jammed are related to user-influenced variables. I've occasionally neglected to chamber check reloads before a match (oops!), and if I get too energetic slamming a magazine home on a speed reload, the top round in the mag may nosedive which is almost always a guaranteed jam.

As a mechanical engineer I may be a little more sensitive as to how things like recoil, hammer and magazine springs need to harmonize. Quite often when I hear of 1911s not running right it's due to untutored changes in those components or adding stuff the gun doesn't need, like shock buffers (ask me how I know).
 
#25 ·
Quite often when I hear of 1911s not running right it's due to untutored changes in those components or adding stuff the gun doesn't need, like shock buffers (ask me how I know).
Bill Wilson has made a fortune off of selling those very items. :wink:
 
#27 ·
What IS a "1911" or a Government Model these days?
How many manufacturers these days are just cranking them out? It is like comparing apples to coleslaw.
Some are ultra reliable and a certain percentage will not be.
The vast majority of 1911 malfunctions are either extractor or magazine related.
A properly constructed 1911 is probably one of the most consistently reliable handguns that has ever existed.

It is also one of the most "home gunsmithed" firearms out there.

Therein lie the vast majority of reliability issues.

What some owners do to frame feed ramps and barrel chamber mouths make me want to shudder.

And folks cannot just "pop in aftermarket parts" without knowing what they are doing.
Kimber is now a reliable firearm but, with a very jaded past.
They are still twice overpriced based on their manufacturing process.
That remains my personal opinion but, folks love them.
It's their $$$ so they can spend it however they want.
Whatever floats the boat.

There are so many incredible magazines out there these days that "magazine" problems should really no longer be an issue.


For a while there many people who believed that they were purchasing original Colt mags were in reality buying Chinese clones.
A properly functioning 1911 should feed fire and eject sideways, upside down, limp wrist or death grip and minus any trace off lubrication.

If yours does not....send it to a qualified gunsmith.

Do not replace or "adjust" the tension on an extractor unless you know what you are doing.

Many 1911 handguns are factory furnished
with a compromise weight recoil spring. They are too heavy for some cartridge loadings.

My suggestion would be to just reread any posts by OD regarding the 1911.
That's all you'll ever need to know. :yup:
 
#31 ·
A properly constructed 1911 is probably one of the most consistently reliable handguns that has ever existed.

It is also one of the most "home gunsmithed" firearms out there.

Therein lie the vast majority of reliability issues.
...

My suggestion would be to just reread any posts by OD regarding the 1911.
That's all you'll ever need to know. :yup:
(abridged)

Mr. QKShooter -- I had already started taking OD's advice before buying my Colt Commander recently. I also took this advice from someone else here that I won't mention :smile: since I'm not a gunsmith and know it --
""A 1911 is a very enjoyable gun to own and shoot ... a lot! Messing with them is fraught with more difficulties than leaving them be, unless messing with them is intended to become one's hobby. I have observed perfectly good and reliable 1911s reduced to malfunctioning rubbish by nitwits. This was early in a shooting career and I vowed to avoid doing the same. Leaving 'em alone and just shooting 'em has worked out alright for me."
 
#28 ·
I remember in the 1950s, GI 1911s with GI magazines had the reputation of being very ammo sensitive. Military ball ammo worked great. Blunt nose or wide mouth JHP ammo had issues.

Changes in feed ramp design and magazine design have improved reliability with different ammo. If you look at the barrel feed ramp and chamber on my Springfield TRP Operator 10mm and on my Colt Delta Elite 10mm, there are big differences in design.

In general, the smaller the gun, the more issues I have had with them. My 1911s vary from 1989 to 2019 manufacture date and are all 5" government models. I have lots of Colt magazines, and some Chip McCormick, Kimber ProMag, Tripp, and Wilson magazines. They are interchangeable in my guns with no issues.
 
#32 ·
Ive fired 1911s from a few manufacturers including Colt, S&W, Ruger, RIA, Sig, Springfield, Kimber, and not a single one showed me a level of reliability that I would ever trust to put into defensive use.

The one I have shot the most of the Ruger SR1911, since a friend owns one. Its a 5" 45acp gun, as are all the others that Ive shot. His Ruger wouldnt go 20 rounds without a malfunction with 230gr Gold Dots. After 150-200 rounds of regular shootning 230gr ball (still with occasional malfunctions), it would just stop working, Im guessing due to the accumulation of debris and lube burning off.

When it comes to the other non standard 45acp 5" guns that Ive fired, it was a Sig P938 and a STI 2011 in 9mm. The Sig P938 didnt work worth a crap either. The STI, I only fired maybe 100rds, but it was junk Barnaul 115gr lacquer cased steel ammo, through a thoroughly thrashed, dirty, and dry rental gun at the gun shop I worked at. It fired all the ammo flawlessly, as Id expect. Ive never shot any of the ultra high-end classic guns from manufacturers like Nighthawk, Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, etc, who knows maybe they are better. They certainly are pretty.

For me, there are so many other guns that I have shot thousands of thousands of rounds through that I know just work. I dont buy the whole "it just likes this one certain ammo" or "youre using the wrong magazines." The gun should work. If I load a magazine that is designed for the gun with an ammo type designed for the gun, theres no excuse for the gun not to work. I know that with my Glocks, if its a 9mm gun, I can throw any junk 9mm into any magazine that fits (whether its a factory or any sort of Magpul or even a knockoff Korean gunshow magazine) and its going to run. Id completely trust a Glock right out of the box with any type of ammo. Thats not to say just Glocks, but any modern type of gun. Im not sure what it is, but I havent had luck with the 1911 platform and I also see lots of others who have had the same type of experience. When I worked at that store/range, I saw lots of other people shooting lots of different types of handguns. Lots of people at the range were always having problems with 1911s. Thats just what I saw. Im not interested in "tinkering" with a defensive gun.

Everytime someone posts this type of thread and I come in with my response that Ive tried 1911s of different models and manufacturers with multiple different types of ammo, and just have not seen a single reliable combination, people act like Im calling their wife ugly. I just dont get it. Somehow saying that Ive not had a good experience with a certain type of gun offends people. Strange. Sure, it was carried on the hip of lots of GIs during both world wars, but Im sure if you could have offered a gun that weighed nearly half what the 1911 did, and carried over twice the ammo, and ran in nearly any condition, the GIs would have picked that over the 1911. The troops were also shooting 1903s and M1 Garands. Both amazing weapons of their day, but if you could tell a soldier in 1915 in the trenches that he could swap his 1903 for an AR15 with a 1-8x optic, 30rd magazine, flashlight, IR laser/illuminator, and a set of PVS-14s, Im sure he would happily have ran his 1903 and 1911 over with a tank.

As Musashi said, "weapons should be hearty, rather than decorative". If you have a 1911 that works no matter what, awesome. Rock it. If you are looking for a utilitarian gun, and have seen lots of issues with 1911s in your own experience, and still want a 1911 because of its amazing history and beautiful lines, Id say that maybe Musashi was onto something.
 
#33 ·
A 1911 does not need a "shock buff" - what folks experience as a shock to the hand is really not a shock to a quality frame and slide.

After decades of shooting the 1911 - that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :yup:

I could add more but, it would make get some members upset.

I did extensive personal testing on Colt manufactured 1911s years ago.
 
#34 ·
A properly constructed 1911 is probably one of the most consistently reliable handguns that has ever existed.
I have a "properly constructed" 1911 on the way to me. A used (said to be in excellent condition) Wilson Combat Protector Elite. I thought about several options, starting with a RIA, cheap but shootable, Sig, Ruger, Springfield, Colt, and so on. I decided I'm 67, won't live forever, and wanted the best, even if I can't truly afford the Wilson Combat. I came real close to buying a Colt, then decided what the heck. The Wilson has a mag well, match grade barrel, and a few other bells and whistles.
 
#35 ·
Spending a lot of money on a high end 1911 does not ensure reliability! For example I have a full size Rock Island Armory GI model bone stock except for some grips that is boringly reliable. OTOH, a buddy has a high end Kimber full size that cost almost 4 times what my Rock Island Armory cost that tends to be very finicky with certain loads! My Rock Island is just as accurate as my Colt 1991 A1:confused: Just my .02 worth!
 
#36 ·
Ive never found 1911s to be unreliable. It seems these statements usually come from people who either don’t have any experience with them, or they take a dremel to a brand new perfectly functioning 1911 to make it “better”.
 
#37 ·
@Chuck808 -- "Sure, it was carried on the hip of lots of GIs during both world wars, but Im sure if you could have offered a gun that weighed nearly half what the 1911 did, and carried over twice the ammo, and ran in nearly any condition, the GIs would have picked that over the 1911."

Funny -- even though the military replaced the 1911 long ago for those pistols that weigh less and hold twice the ammo, the 1911 remains favored and used by both Army Spec. Forces and the Marines....
 
#41 ·
Lots of folks have opinions about the 1911. Some folks have experience with the 1911 platform.

I’ve owned and shot just two brands, Springfield Armory and Colt. Fit and finish is better on the Colts. Both brands are reliable. My Colts had easily 10,000 rounds thru them. Cleaned and properly maintained. Apart from the occasional jam no failures. None.

I’m not a 1911 expert. I do know mine worked. Not as reliable as a Glock but reliable enough IMO.
 
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