The Problem With Run, Hide, Fight

The Problem With Run, Hide, Fight

This is a discussion on The Problem With Run, Hide, Fight within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This prescribed method for response to a mass shooter has one big flaw with it, which plays out over and over and over. By the ...

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Thread: The Problem With Run, Hide, Fight

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    The Problem With Run, Hide, Fight

    This prescribed method for response to a mass shooter has one big flaw with it, which plays out over and over and over. By the time the crowd of victims get around to the fight part, they are already dead or incapacitated. The average shooting involves a victim every four to seven seconds. Why not teach/advocate rushing the shooter as a crowd as soon as the intentions become apparent instead?
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    I'm guessing it's because they want to foster a more timid society who won't be likely to fight back against a superior force.... <wink-wink>
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    That makes sense on the surface, especially in an enclosed space where escape is limited or non-existent.

    Too many would see that as suicidal or foolhardy. Gather a crowd of 25-30 people from anywhere and ask, "Which of you would be the first to rush an active shooter?" I doubt many hands would go up.
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    Distinguished Member Array dennis40x's Avatar
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    Why place ones self in shoot me zone venues. I practice avoidance of such places. Thus if I can't go there armed I'm not going there. With that said I'm not much of a socialite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    That makes sense on the surface, especially in an enclosed space where escape is limited or non-existent.

    Too many would see that as suicidal or foolhardy. Gather a crowd of 25-30 people from anywhere and ask, "Which of you would be the first to rush an active shooter?" I doubt many hands would go up.
    I agree. Similar situations took place on the planes on 9/11. Only a couple of brave men took initiative to fight and take control. It’s not a natural instinct in that situation to fight back. Once the brain realizes what’s going on, that you are “out gunned”, I think survival instinct to get away and hide takes over. It would be hard to convince an average group of 20-30 to charge a gunman while unarmed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    That makes sense on the surface, especially in an enclosed space where escape is limited or non-existent.

    Too many would see that as suicidal or foolhardy. Gather a crowd of 25-30 people from anywhere and ask, "Which of you would be the first to rush an active shooter?" I doubt many hands would go up.
    Agreed, but twenty-five or thirty (or two, or three) rushing as a group is much less suicidal than cowering under a desk or pew and awaiting one's turn which is certainly coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoppo View Post
    I'm guessing it's because they want to foster a more timid society who won't be likely to fight back against a superior force.... <wink-wink>
    They, whoever they might be, have already succeeded in that particular endeavor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattmann View Post
    I agree. Similar situations took place on the planes on 9/11. Only a couple of brave men took initiative to fight and take control. It’s not a natural instinct in that situation to fight back. Once the brain realizes what’s going on, that you are “out gunned”, I think survival instinct to get away and hide takes over. It would be hard to convince an average group of 20-30 to charge a gunman while unarmed.


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    Current doctrine has convinced them to do the exact opposite, which is what I'm driving at.
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    I can hear it now (from the proponents of that failed RHF defensive strategy)

    "Oh, but that would be DANGEROUS !"

    My question: More dangerous than being murdered, one at a time ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
    Why place ones self in shoot me zone venues. I practice avoidance of such places. Thus if I can't go there armed I'm not going there. With that said I'm not much of a socialite.
    My thoughts here are addressed to those who do place themselves in venues outside the confines of individual comfort zones--school, church, restaurants, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    That makes sense on the surface, especially in an enclosed space where escape is limited or non-existent.

    Too many would see that as suicidal or foolhardy. Gather a crowd of 25-30 people from anywhere and ask, "Which of you would be the first to rush an active shooter?" I doubt many hands would go up.
    The key is to push everyone else in front of you towards the bad guy and then flank him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusIV View Post
    I can hear it now (from the proponents of that failed RHF defensive strategy)

    "Oh, but that would be DANGEROUS !"

    My question: More dangerous than being murdered, one at a time ?
    Fighting presents an opportunity for success in actively bringing the event to a quicker conclusion. Everything else, not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Agreed, but twenty-five or thirty (or two, or three) rushing as a group is much less suicidal than cowering under a desk or pew and awaiting one's turn which is certainly coming.
    You understand that, I understand that, most members here understand that. But change "us" to a bunch of college-aged kids partying in a bar late at night and that understanding is not quite so likely. It goes against instinct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    You understand that, I understand that, most members here understand that. But change "us" to a bunch of college-aged kids partying in a bar late at night and that understanding is not quite so likely. It goes against instinct.
    No, it goes against societal conditioning and upbringing. As long as ALICE is tolerated and a violent response to violence is not, we are going to continue to get what we are getting.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

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    Please understand though that war plans, all war plans, exist until the first shot is fired. The plan might succeed. The other side of the coin is that you might only add 25-30 people to the body count in a quick stroke.

    No plan is foolproof, and any time you have unarmed facing armed, the plan can go south, rapidly. The same may be said for any different scenario, but a lot of our expectations are unfortunately based on Hollywierd portrayals of such events. I fear the only unarmed charge those idiots know anything firsthand about is the dash to the crack pipe.

    The only more or less sure defense is an armed, trained person engaging the shooter using relatively effective tactics. Desperation tactics can work, but usually do not. I suspect that given the wussification of our society, you just won't find more than a small handful of persons inclined to charge a shooter. I will take decades, or a war on American soil, to change the number significantly.
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